The news!

As most of you know, Portugal (my country) is one of the EU and Eurozone countries that is in economic and financial dire straits. We have been governed by some nasty sultans of swing (see what I did there?...) that have been quite irresponsible when dealing with public money and public policies.
We are now under the whip of the IMF, the ECB and the EC and severe austerity measures that penalize the poor and benifit the rich. Of course this is very much a simplification, but not far from the truth.
Over the past few years the media have been opting out of providing solid information and turned the news into information reality shows. This is true for privately owned TV channels, but also for the public TV network. And mind you - we only have 4 public access channels. If you want more, you have to sign up for cable or whatever...
The newspapers are more reluctant to join this dance, but the most read papers over here, although they aren't tabloids are very brash and value entertainment over information.
Nowadays with all the austerity measures, the rising unemployment, the fear of contagion from Greece and Spain, the mass media have resorted to fear-mongering and numbing people to oblivion. I feel that, instead of informing and inciting people to "fight" they are defeatist, and intertwined with the major political interests and financial interests represented by the banks (that are, as it seems, too big to fail). Something is dead wrong...
I also feel that the average man in the street is on to them. I mean... although he is not rebbeling, he has already understood that if this crisis goes any further, the result will be is further empoverishment and the exact opposite for some fat cats in big blacked out windows luxury sedan.
Because of this fear-mongering and lack of information, I decided to stop watching the news and resort to other channels of information. I still read the papers (online) and foreign papers. I also read blogs and the fresh documents from the EU. I also follow the EU parliament channel on youtube. I find myself better informed now than before. And I think that my criticism is much deeper and sharper now that I have refused altogether to be one of the lambs.

So... do you watch the news on TV? Do you trust what they tell you? What other sources of information do you have?

Are you sure you're not referring to American news media? Honestly, I think all media is slanted in one way or another. To me, the key is to gather as much "news" and info. as you can from many divergent sources, and maybe glean some kernels of truth somewhere in between.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ScoutHikerDad

Are you sure you're not referring to American news media? Honestly, I think all media is slanted in one way or another. To me, the key is to gather as much "news" and info. as you can from many divergent sources, and maybe glean some kernels of truth somewhere in between.

---

I agree. You need to get your news from all sources and then sort out the propaganda from the facts the best you can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

I agree. You need to get your news from all sources and then sort out the propaganda from the facts the best you can.

---

+1 on that

I've watched both US and European news channels and for some reason i think that news in the USA are more like entertainment shows with beautiful and tanned smiling anchors telling half news. European public channels are much more unbiased. Of course there are exceptions too, but you have to be critical when watching any kind of news and get your information from other sources too. Most suspicious you need to be with commercial channels (those with ads) be it from EU or USA.

Crisis in the south is just a perfect example what happens when banks and investigators (as well as individual people) are let to make good business without any kind of control nor responsibility for their own actions. They gave oversized loans to whoever wanted and simple people took all the money they could get without much thinking if it is ever possible to pay back, specially if the times goes worse. Imaging that the good times would last forever. And now all the Europe is paying, also those whose economy was better controlled. And not just Europe, via IMF there's other big economies like Japan, Russia and China.
I can still understand why it is important not to let banks collapse, because whatever happens it is the people that pay, way or the other. In Greece they already cut some expenses from private investigators and that is what they should do in Spain and Italy as well, but not too much.
I think that if the country cannot take care of its own politics it's better that IMF takes control over it. It might be painful but it is far from the worst what might happen and it is also a door to new healthier beginning. Remember what happened in Iceland?

What happens in Greece tomorrow is most interesting. If they do not want any more help, then we should stop trying to give it. Greece was a perfect example of the mad politicians who never wanted to make sad decisions but let the crisis grow. Now the emperor has no clothes. I'm sorry for the people there. I am and the whole Europe is paying now but they are the ones who'll have to pay the highest and longest. But if it is necessary to prevent crisis turning into chaos then i'm ok to help them too.
I think that politicians incapable or unwilling to make unpleasant and hard decisions when needed are no much of a leaders but puppies to their voters.

TV News, Print News, most all news is business. They all appeal/cater to their owners/advertisers. I feel like its difficult to get good reliable information news lately. If I do watch or read any news media, I definitely take it with a grain of salt as its likely only to contain a fraction of the real story. It's all about shocking the customer or putting a message out there their owner/advertiser wants spread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sailor

I think that if the country cannot take care of its own politics it's better that IMF takes control over it. It might be painful but it is far from the worst what might happen and it is also a door to new healthier beginning. Remember what happened in Iceland?

What happens in Greece tomorrow is most interesting. If they do not want any more help, then we should stop trying to give it. Greece was a perfect example of the mad politicians who never wanted to make sad decisions but let the crisis grow. Now the emperor has no clothes. I'm sorry for the people there. I am and the whole Europe is paying now but they are the ones who'll have to pay the highest and longest. But if it is necessary to prevent crisis turning into chaos then i'm ok to help them too.
I think that politicians incapable or unwilling to make unpleasant and hard decisions when needed are no much of a leaders but puppies to their voters.

---

I understand what you mean. But the Icelandic example is not a good example of IMF led financial governance. In fact, Iceland is a remarkable example of a country that went bust, but refused the IMF governance. They took matters into their own hands and decided that their independence is worth more that a couple of Kronne. The bankers were tried and put to jail, the PM as well, the constitution is being re-writen by 25 citizens chosen by their peers. That is precisely because we have so little information concerning Iceland... the media doesn't want the EU citizens to know what is going on in Iceland. Because they prove that you cannot borrow yourself out of debt the same way you cannot drink yourself sober.

Greece is a big problem... but it is time to face the problem. I am a citizen of a useless, lazy southern coutry. You know... one of those countries that live under the auspices of borrowed money. At least that is what people in the north of Europe seem to think. Because of that, I refuse to reprimend Greeks on their attitude towards work and productivity. But their entry into the Eurozone was a mistake. Their politicians (counting among the most incompetent in the continent) lied to their people and to the European Institutions. They forged information that was crucial to the implementation of the Euro. And now we are all paying for that... Let's see what our Greek colleagues do tomorrow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fpessanha

Greece is a big problem... but it is time to face the problem. I am a citizen of a useless, lazy southern coutry. You know... one of those countries that live under the auspices of borrowed money. At least that is what people in the north of Europe seem to think.

---

Seeing things like this is very uncommon here in the north. Most people seem to understand your problems as we had the same situation in 1991. It is not about people but poor politicians and their incapability to understand what happened when economy overheated without restrictions until it was too late and the bubble got broke. Of course people get tired on giving more and more money into economies that doesn't seem to want to help themselves (Greece in special).
The information from the sites of Ministry of Finances tells that the sum we've already given to Greece equals about 17.000 € per Finnish family. We are still doing fine and for what i know, most people still understand the importance of helping southern nations. But little or no understanding comes when TV shows how mob in Greece burns German flags.

In EU there are some political movements that already insist 'kicking our catholic brothers to hell from union' (their words) but such movements are only small minority (luckily imho). Such groups have very short or selective memory or their knowledge on history is very limited. No good comes that way.
Some movements are for smaller, more integrated federal union around the Baltic Sea. Sort of a Hanseatic League modernized, Fennoscandia, Benelux, Ireland and maybe Scotland included. I'm very suspicious with it too.

Shame on me as i've never been in Portugal but surely will some day. I've been in Italy, Greece and Spain and they were nice countries with nice people. Well i'm not sure about Italians (only joking). Specially i remember how beautiful and exotic some Spanish ladies were :p

These are interesting times indeed. It only tells that the world is never ready; big changes can happen and not only in history. It also tells that no country is alone and no country alone makes the world turn. It is more like we are all in the same boat.
Tomorrow will be an interesting day really. It tells much about the direction we are heading in the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sailor

Seeing things like this is very uncommon here in the north. Most people seem to understand your problems as we had the same situation in 1991. It is not about people but poor politicians and their incapability to understand what happened when economy overheated without restrictions until it was too late and the bubble got broke. Of course people get tired on giving more and more money into economies that doesn't seem to want to help themselves (Greece in special).

---

When I say that there is this prevalent view of southern / catholic countries as being lazy and all that, I didn't mean Finland, although there are Finnish political factions that see to think that way... That just shows how necessary the EU really is. This is a continent with an allarming tendency to beligerence... I know that Finland has faced economic difficulties in the near past. But tell that to some Dutch or Germans or French (just to name a few...). The idea that southern peoples are lazy is very nice for commedy... but quite far from the truth. Our problem is the depletion process of excelence and experience form the political classes. The UK eurosceptic MEP Nigel Farage said something that I agree entirely: our politicians are college kids; they have no work experience whatsoever; how can they manage a country if they have never worked for a living?
I appreciate the cool expression you used: "there are interesting times indeed". And indeed they are. I only wish I was observing the interesting times from the comfort of having a job. Unfortunately I am in the numbers of rising youth unemployment. That will change, though. As soon as my baby boy is old enough to travel my wife and I will be out of here!
Greece is the "battlefield" now. It is where things will be decided... let's see what the Greeks will do tomorrow.

I hope that times will get better for you and your countrymen. I'm sure they will do, sooner or later. I'm sure that there will be a day when there's enough work available there.

I strongly agree with mr. Farage about some politicians. We've learned the hard way that the politician (or salesman, by the way) who makes biggest promises is the one that tells the biggest lies.

In Europe we have too much experiences what happens when crisis get too deep. Nobody, at least no sane person, wants it.
Some cheap politicians are taking all the advantages from the current crisis to get into power, specially in Greece, but elsewhere in EU also. It is a politics of hate. Luckily they are just small minorities and for some reason i think these false messiahs will fall. Maybe i'm just too optimistic.

Now, what channel or country was that where they have "the naked news" where the folks are out there in their birthday suits?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Now, what channel or country was that where they have "the naked news" where the folks are out there in their birthday suits?

---

For what i know it began in the UK (i might be wrong with this). Later it came at least to Finland and Sweden but i have no idea if it's ever been elsewhere.
Who cares about what they say as long as it looks good!
And as we are talking about news, not the nine o'clock news (BBC) was great.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fpessanha

So... do you watch the news on TV? Do you trust what they tell you? What other sources of information do you have?

---

In the UK the BBC TV and radio news is generally fairly reliable. Although Margaret Thatcher did once describe the BBC as Buggers Broadcasting Communism.
The newspapers are another matter entirely, as we are seeing from the ongoing Leveson enquiry. There is rot that goes right to the core of UK print journalism. In fairness, the reason much of the news is bad is because............. it's bad.
Most of the older industrialised nations appear to have been living above their means for years.
How countries like Greece are going to survive, with no real industrial base and only tourism to generate wealth, I've no idea.
The only way to get some idea of what is happening is to read a lot of different journals such as 'The Economist' and similar publications and try to get a balanced view. In the end all news is slanted or 'spun' to some degree.
A long time ago someone said: "If you give a million monkeys, a million typewriters, for a million years they'd come up with the works of Shakespeare" when what you actually get is: The Internet.