Flying a plane - my first flight lesson

Hey guys-

So I just got done my first ever flight lesson. My brother bought me an hour lesson in a small diamond 20 for my birthday- great gift. This was only the second time I'd been in a small plane (I jumped out of the other I was in!! Skydiving of course!). And I have to say, it was exhilarating, fun, and very fulfilling. I was not as nervous as I'd though I'd be, and my instructor let me do about 90 to 95% of the flying. I 'helped' him take off, I flew pretty much the whole time in the air, then he took over the controls at about 50 ft after I approached the runway. Needless to say, i was not expecting to fly that much by myself, it was a great surprise!!!

I really only did this as a one time thing, but after realizing how much fun it is, I may look into getting my license in the distant future (when I have more money, hopefully millions :)). So has anyone else been flying and gotten hooked? Or any one and dones? I must say, it is fun stuff!!! :rock:

I used to fly with a friend many many years ago and he taught me. Though I enjoyed it immensely I never took formal lessons. It was too expensive and my feeling now hasn't changed that it's even more expensive unless you go very Light Sport and then you are really limited and once you get your license either buying or renting is too expensive for me.

I've been lucky in that on and off I've been able to get behind the controls through work however I must confine myself these days to computer flying. I know it's nowhere near the same but it can be surprisingly realistic in many ways.

Yea, the price is really the killer. If it was less expensive, I'd be all over it. My instructor today told me by the time I have my license, it'd be about $7500 - much too rich for me!! But it is a thrill, after doing it, everyone should experience it at least once. I felt less scared flying that than I often do in passenger airliners!! I think having control of the plane is a big part of that obviously.

If you really want to get a certificate here's an idea of what you need to try to do. Shop around and find a NEWLY rated flight instructor. One that has yet to have a student get his certificate. Make a deal with him as he is more interested in getting a few students under his belt than making a lot of $$. You pay the rent on the plane and he basically donates his time or sells it at a reduced rate. Most of those guys are simply instructing to add hours to their logbooks so they can go BIG time and fly heavies.

Help one out. ;)

Ahhhh, working the system Wullie!!! I like it! :beer1: Thanks for the tip!!

I got my ticket in 29 days. I had time to fly every day that the weather permitted, pretty much unlimited access to a plane, and an instructor in the shape that I described.

I also had quite a bit of flight time before I got my "official" training, so I was a bit ahead of the curve. The reason I had stick time was that I helped run an aircraft repair shop. A buddy of mine and I fixed old beat up "tube and rag" stuff. We also built experimental planes for guys with money and no skill or no time to build their own.

I learned to fly in a Piper Colt. It was an UGLY "nose dragger" with no flaps, and handle for the brakes. It didn't have differential braking and could get interesting on the ground. It flew great as all "short wing" Pipers do. It was a lot of fun in spite being ugly.

You might also shop around and find an older plane that will rent for less per hour than a new, fancy-schmancy plane with a lot of bells and whistles, and BIG note to pay off for the owner. ;)

An even better idea is, a lot of smaller flight schools have gone under. Get one of those guys as long as he still retained his permits and ratings of course and he might be willing to do it as a private student. of course the trick would be getting a rental center to rent you a plane IF they knew what your real intention was.

I used to work at a small airport in IL and always wanted to get my license but just never had the cash

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Originally Posted by toadq5

Yea, the price is really the killer. If it was less expensive, I'd be all over it. My instructor today told me by the time I have my license, it'd be about $7500 - much too rich for me!! But it is a thrill, after doing it, everyone should experience it at least once. I felt less scared flying that than I often do in passenger airliners!! I think having control of the plane is a big part of that obviously.

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Wow that's about double from where I worked!!

Well congrats on getting to play around in the skies! It really is a lot of fun. Average cost if you're only flying 1-3 times a week is $7-10k, so the number he gave you is spot on if you do your check ride as soon as you've logged your 40hrs. I thing on average most people take 50-60 hrs before finishing out.

I got about halfway to mine this past winter, but work got in the way. I haven't been back up since. We were using a tb-9 Tampico, but they also have a da-20 like the plane you flew in. :)

A VLS certification is supposedly half the cost of a regular private pilot. If all you want to do is go up and fly around now and then that might be a good solution.

DO yourself a favor. Find something like this to learn to fly in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXzL...eature=related
Piper PA-22-108 "Colt".

They are an absolute HOOT to fly! NO flaps, no differential braking, just a bare bones flying machine. Known as a "short wing" Piper. They can be spun, but you have to work EXTREMELY hard to spin it. I tried five or six times before I got it to spin very lazily one afternoon.

The planes are as honest as the day is long, they have no bad habits and are pretty economical to operate.

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Piper PA-22 108 Colt - Performance Data

Horsepower: 108 Gross Weight: 1650 lbs
Top Speed: 104 kts Empty Weight: 940 lbs
Cruise Speed: 94 kts Fuel Capacity: 36 gal
Stall Speed (dirty): 47 kts Range: 415 nm

Takeoff Landing
Ground Roll: 950 ft Ground Roll 500 ft
Over 50 ft obstacle: 1500 ft Over 50 ft obstacle: 1250 ft

Rate Of Climb: 610 fpm
Ceiling: 12000 ft

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Bigspendur - what's a VLS certification?

That Piper Colt is awesome!! The flight school actually has one of them, but I think it was out the day I went. Thanks for all the tips and pointers guys, appreciate it!! :)

GIve it a shot. Tube and rag flying is great fun!

I got a kick out the spec's I copied

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Stall Speed (dirty): 47 kts

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AS it has fixed gear, no flaps, no cowl flaps, nor speed brakes, I'm wondering if they had the window open to make it (dirty) or had they been playing in the mud?:rofl2:

Skip over to about the 5:00 mark in this vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_Up8w0JZfc&feature=related

And watch the guy slip that bird. Those things will descend at 1000FPM like that. You can hear and feel the prop tip vortices drumming on the side of the plane. I used to get the one I flew into and out of fileds that C-150's and such wouldn't dare. They are fun little planes, ESPECIALLY with one person and about half fuel. ;)

I too am wondering what VLS certs are. I recall hearing something about a sport plane license or some such, but if I recall, it was strictly solo, daytime VFR. I've been out of the loop too long to say for sure.

It sounds similar to a sport. As you said, those are daytime solo vfr only. There's also an aircraft weight restriction, 1500lbs I think

yes, very light sport. A cheap ticket if you just want to "fly". Many restrictions. 2000lb gross limit, engine size I think 100hp max (most are around 80) fixed wheels, 2 seats, daytime only, VFR only and a few others. Diamond katana, Aerospool Dynamic are two that meet the requirements.

If you can find one still operating a piper cub is about the purest form of flight.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

If you can find one still operating a piper cub is about the purest form of flight.

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LOTS of 'em out there from J-3's up to PA-18's ( Super Cubs ). They ain't cheap. ( even though they ought to be ) They are fun and you can do a LOT with one IF you have your ducks in a row.

Last Cub I flew was originally built in 1943 for Bevo Howard. It stared life with a 65HP engine, now it has a 350HP hot rodded Lycoming, clipped wings with a Taylorcraft airfoil ( because CUB wings have flat bottom airfoil and don't do well flying inverted), full aerobatic oil and fuel system, a smoke system, and "bass boat" seats. It would get airborne in about three or four plane lengths and climb nearly straight up. It would also put you to sleep quicker than any damn plane I ever sat in when you started pulling serious G's. Something about being wadded up and folded in half just sit in it I think.

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Originally Posted by Wullie

LOTS of 'em out there from J-3's up to PA-18's ( Super Cubs ). They ain't cheap. ( even though they ought to be ) They are fun and you can do a LOT with one IF you have your ducks in a row.

Last Cub I flew was originally built in 1943 for Bevo Howard. It stared life with a 65HP engine, now it has a 350HP hot rodded Lycoming, clipped wings with a Taylorcraft airfoil ( because CUB wings have flat bottom airfoil and don't do well flying inverted), full aerobatic oil and fuel system, a smoke system, and "bass boat" seats. It would get airborne in about three or four plane lengths and climb nearly straight up. It would also put you to sleep quicker than any damn plane I ever sat in when you started pulling serious G's. Something about being wadded up and folded in half just sit in it I think.

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Most of the cubs they put the big engines in don't really fly any faster then the stock engines. The airframe just has limitations. yea start messing with the wings you can hotrod the plane but that usually comes at a price of stability.

I bet it still takes a hefty amount of right rudder to keep it straight on the runway

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Most of the cubs they put the big engines in don't really fly any faster then the stock engines. The airframe just has limitations. yea start messing with the wings you can hotrod the plane but that usually comes at a price of stability.

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We didn't hang that big engine out there for speed. We hung it on that plane so it would act like a helicopter. You could point it straight up and hang it off the prop. It was built with clipped wings for aerobatics, hence it also had the T-craft semi symmetrical airfoil. Stability? That punk was solid as rock in any attitude you had the balls to fly it in. It was faster but not a lot as you stated.

I've flown 220HP Stearmans and 450-HP Stearmans. Same deal. A Stearman will only go so fast. However, one with a 450 HP Pratt & Whitney will damn sure out perform the 220HP version as far as carrying a load and getting it off the ground. Burns a lot more gas too. No free lunches in aviation. Stability? ROCK FUGGIN SOLID!

Hanging bigger engines on planes usually results in a loss of agility due to weight increase. For example the BF-109's ultimate "knife fighter" version was the F model. It had less HP and a smaller engine than the later G's and K's. The G's and K's were faster and would climb better, but they would not turn like the F's. Gunther Rall ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnther_Rall ) had to be ordered to turn in his beloved F model for re-work to a G. He was never as happy with the G's.

Ken you are right, when you cobbed it to that punk you pretty well had to stand on the rudder. It took off nearly as good at half to two thirds throttle as did with full throttle and was a LOT easier to keep it pointed in the right direction. ;)

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Originally Posted by Wullie

We didn't hang that big engine out there for speed. We hung it on that plane so it would act like a helicopter. You could point it straight up and hang it off the prop. It was built with clipped wings for aerobatics, hence it also had the T-craft semi symmetrical airfoil. Stability? That punk was solid as rock in any attitude you had the balls to fly it in. It was faster but not a lot as you stated.

I've flown 220HP Stearmans and 450-HP Stearmans. Same deal. A Stearman will only go so fast. However, one with a 450 HP Pratt & Whitney will damn sure out perform the 220HP version as far as carrying a load and getting it off the ground. Burns a lot more gas too. No free lunches in aviation. Stability? ROCK FUGGIN SOLID!

Hanging bigger engines on planes usually results in a loss of agility due to weight increase. For example the BF-109's ultimate "knife fighter" version was the F model. It had less HP and a smaller engine than the later G's and K's. The G's and K's were faster and would climb better, but they would not turn like the F's. Gunther Rall ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BCnther_Rall ) had to be ordered to turn in his beloved F model for re-work to a G. He was never as happy with the G's.

Ken you are right, when you cobbed it to that punk you pretty well had to stand on the rudder. It took off nearly as good at half to two thirds throttle as did with full throttle and was a LOT easier to keep it pointed in the right direction. ;)

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And when full rudder doesn't work and you need to start adding differential braking to stay straight you begin to enter trouble territory.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

And when full rudder doesn't work and you need to start adding differential braking to stay straight you begin to enter trouble territory.

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Recipe for disaster in a tail dragger :dropjaw:

Ground loop special!

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

And when full rudder doesn't work and you need to start adding differential braking to stay straight you begin to enter trouble territory.

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Wasn't big deal in that plane. It was airborne too fast to worry about using the brakes to stay straight. ;)

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Originally Posted by Wullie

LOTS of 'em out there from J-3's up to PA-18's ( Super Cubs ). They ain't cheap. ( even though they ought to be ) They are fun and you can do a LOT with one IF you have your ducks in a row.

Last Cub I flew was originally built in 1943 for Bevo Howard. It stared life with a 65HP engine, now it has a 350HP hot rodded Lycoming, clipped wings with a Taylorcraft airfoil ( because CUB wings have flat bottom airfoil and don't do well flying inverted), full aerobatic oil and fuel system, a smoke system, and "bass boat" seats. It would get airborne in about three or four plane lengths and climb nearly straight up. It would also put you to sleep quicker than any damn plane I ever sat in when you started pulling serious G's. Something about being wadded up and folded in half just sit in it I think.

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i live a few min away from the old piper plant my grandfather was lead paint man on the production line for the cubs from what all the old timers tell me they are the best plane ever, id love to fly but cant afford it and the airforce wont take me as a pilot because of my vision once a year we have a fly in and man i must say its soo cool to see 100 piper cubs coming home and talking to all the guys and hearing there flight stories.