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Originally Posted by
FUD
The trouble with the gay marriage issue is that it goes far beyond simple freedom issues. Scientifically homosexuality is considered "destructive" to human survival because it is a lifestyle that contradicts the survival of the species.
Lots of things do, that's called 'evolution' and it's nature's way to try and create more diverse beings to ensure survival. It's nothing more than random bittoggling on a genetic level and some changes seem to stick and/or reoccur more frequently, like the fact that we have 5 digits no each limb with one of them being an opposoble thumb.
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Thus gay rights activists champion it as rights of "an evolved species". This is done under the assumption that we'll never have a major catastrophe that will eliminate all advanced science techniques that would enable reproduction for homosexual couples. It's a fair assumption but it cannot be completely guaranteed.
Procreation isn't about survival of the individual, it's about survival of the species, if some people can't/won't procreate due to their genetic programming then that's, very brutally put, nature's way of saying/deciding that they weren't meant to be and their genetic line dies out. (Not trying to be offensive here, it's just reality that nature in its randomness condems certain individual genetic lines, for example people born sterile)
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Religiously speaking, for centuries homosexuality has been considered an offense to the very being of God.
And He came down from the heavens and told you that personally or did he upload a video to youtube that I might have missed? :rolleyes:
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Since we have freedom of religion and the constitution was originally amended to ensure protection of individual and group religious rights, we now have a problem of morality versus individuality. Religious texts of many faiths have taught for thousands of years that homosexuality is immoral and sinful. Now all of the sudden everyone wants to squelch a person's religious right to decide what's moral or immoral.
That's because morals on a society's level is determined by general consensus, not by an individual, pedofiles think it's morally right to sleep with children, do you think their moral rights are being violated? Furthermore, you still have the right to your own views and moral stance in your own house and own decisions, it may be that you may not always act upon them in public though, if said moral view would cause another person harm either physically or emotionally/mentally. Just because you don't agree with what they think is ok, doesn't give you the right to condemn them publically in word and actions, this still does not impede the moral freedom of your mind that you're allowed to enjoy.
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So now we have the problem of gay marriage not only causing a conflict on the rights of the masses to teach religious moralities we also have the conflict of gay marriage requiring the masses to teach children that their religious immoralities are socially ok and this leads to society trumping God.
Gay marriage does not conflict with your rights to teach children religion at all, should society have evolved into a different set of rules that aren't fully compatible with your religion anymore than maybe your religion should try adapting? Still you haven't been told "since we've now discovered and recognise homosexual people exist, you're now forbidden to teach religion at all", so it doesn't hurt religion one bit. Unless your religion is one of those they practice in Bumfuck, Egypt, complete with stonings, backward views on women and their rights and a general hypocrisy in chosing which rules to apply. As far as the trumping of 'God' goes: if the majority of people in your society thinks that that's ok (and thus probably isn't religious anymore) then that's how it is and it means that while you, as a religious person, are now the minority, you graciously still get the right to practice and teach your belief.
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Some may view this as a good thing but history has shown that a godless society is more often worse than the available alternatives.
Proof?
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My personal belief is this:
1) you have the right to bone who or what you want if it's not illegal.
2) you are responsible for your decisions and actions so bone responsibly.
3) don't try to force me to raise my children to accept your lifestyle decisions.
4) don't squelch my rights to disagree with your lifestyle decisions.
5) If biological design prevents reproduction then it's not protected by societies interests and should not be protected by societies rules.
3) Nobody forces you to 'accept' anything, you are however to coöperate with other people in your society, regardless of how their views may clash with yours, as long as both parties don't harm each other, so that way you need to be 'accepting'. After all, you still want people to interact with you, right, even though they might think of you as a christian and hence may find your own lifestyle not to be their own?
4) Nobody ever does, you still get the right to politely voice your opinion and give notice to your representaties who make up the laws that regulate your society. You just don't get to act on convictions anymore, these aren't the dark ages, witch burning is over.
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So, while I don't judge anyone's legal activities in this arena, I don't support a "family structure" that has any potential to hinder, ruin, or otherwise prevent the survival of the species, no mater how miniscule the chance of that may be.
In that case you don't support regular mariage/being faithful: Nature's preferred way of procreation is females getting impregnated by as many possible men as possible to create multiple genetic lines, furthering chances of a better subtype of the species emerging. It's all about killing off the weak and in a certain sense moral convictions can make you very weak/vulnerable. So off you go, to live in a commune somewhere, do let us know if that works out for you, the rest of us are fairly confident that 'survival' isn't that much of an issue anymore, so we'll continue to look for just one partner. :D
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These last point sets are very controversial. Youv'e been warned. I'm personally sick and tired of a person's sexuality being worn as a banner. At a job site a few years back 3 of the people just had to make sure that every new person on the project knew that they were "gay". If a heterosexual were to go around chanting mantras and declaring his/her sexuality that person would be considered insecure and possibly mentally unstable, yet homosexuality is something to be declared proudly. Give me a break. How you have sex or with whom or what has no bearing on your job. If it does then you ARE in need of therapy, regardless of your sexual orientation or gender, unless of course your a porn star. If a heterosexual male were to go around declaring his heterosexuality at work he'd be fired for fear of potential sexual harrasment issues.
+ the other thing you posted +
I tend to agree with that, although I find it convenient to know who's gay, so that I can evade certain situations, like showering with them in the gym. ";" But I don't agree with gay pride parade and whatever: either you want to be 'normal' and accepted or you can walk in the gay pride parade and be 'different', pick one.
BTW 1) here in Belgum we have gay marriage, it's a civil union, just like regular marriage used to be. We even have adoption possibilities for gay couples now, which is something I personally don't agree with, but like I said before: the majority does (though we here in .be seem to have a dysfunction when it comes to congresmen doing the will of the people and I find the result on this issue; adoption; to be an example of that schism if I'm to believe polls done by various organisations).
2) I'm a hetero male of 29 but I'm in love with a woman that's 10 years older than me, naturally speaking that's not very good, since that will more or less eliminate my chances of procreation if I don't get a lucky break. Should I have the luck and happiness to be allowed to start a relationship with this woman, whom I love, would you find me immoral? If not, what's the beef with homosexuals, sometimes you really can't help who makes you smile. :)
