Environmental Impact

Alex, I wasn't trying to be arrogant. Privilege is something you're supposed to earn and that can be taken away at any time. Right is something you have because you're living and breathing. I was just giving you a good-intentioned correction and nothing else. Sorry if I came off that way.
We both agree that we're not treating the planet right. Our point of contention is whether the global population contributes to it. I believe it does and that we should adopt a dual approach. It doesn't look like either one of us will be able to convince the other, so let's agree to disagree :shrug:

"The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s and 1980s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate..."

Nice quote from "The Population Bomb" by Paul R. Ehrlich.

The real looming population problems are more akin to the Clash of Civilization type as Europe grays and continues to import its workers from cultures at odds with its own. How many cars burned in France on New Year's Day? China also has set itself up for an interesting future with the wildly distored male/female ratio brought about by its opressive one child laws.

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Originally Posted by FiReSTaRT

Alex, I wasn't trying to be arrogant. Privilege is something you're supposed to earn and that can be taken away at any time. Right is something you have because you're living and breathing. I was just giving you a good-intentioned correction and nothing else. Sorry if I came off that way.
We both agree that we're not treating the planet right. Our point of contention is whether the global population contributes to it. I believe it does and that we should adopt a dual approach. It doesn't look like either one of us will be able to convince the other, so let's agree to disagree :shrug:

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I misunderstood Ilja. I used the word priviledge because I believe it's one we recieve from God. Sorry, I tend to let my religion influence my speak.

We're understanding each other perfectly then. I didn't think you'd be that arrogant so I was kind of surprised. My apologies for that.

Ilija,

Having children is a privilege. Not everyone is able to have children, and not everyone is able to adopt. A right is something you are able to exercise. Not everyone can. Now, as far as limiting numbers, that is a personal choice, and is not what this thread is about. I have 5 children. We recycle. We turn off lights. My thermostat is set at 60f during the winter. We use public transportation when possible. I like to think we are doing our part.

RT

Technology and culture go a long way in determining environmental impact. Large parts of Eastern N. America were deforested back when charcoal was the fuel of choice and the population was a fraction of what it is today. Also, in the US, air and water quality have improved in the past 40 years while the population has increased.

Alex, no harm, no foul. I knew it was a misunderstanding.
Randy, I was just trying to clarify Alex' point of view and not making a statement about having children being a right. I don't want to define it as either. I'd rather define it as a responsibility to the children and to the society.

RT - 60f? Brrr! Of course, in a home with 5 kids, a few degrees of difference can probably make a much bigger difference on the ole' heating bill than in my 2-br apartment, heh. I can definitely stand to use less A/C in the summer because I like the heat, but I really hate being cold, so I'm going to have to stay at 72 until the ice caps melt. :P

The community garden is a really good idea! We had one in the community I lived in a few years back when I was in college, but I was busy drinking, attending parties and sometimes going to class, hehe. I'll have to see if we have one to contribute to in my area, as I doubt my landlord is going to let me dig in their yard. :/

If you haven't read the book, I highly recommend it. Not only was it eye-opening on an environmental level, it was eye-opening on a political level...although talking with halliburton / KBR workers here kind of mitigated my surprise at some of the things I read.

Sgt T,

My kids either live with their mother or have flown the coop! But I do keep the thermo on 60! I also live in a 2 bdrm apt, and what makes it nice for me is I am on the middle floor, surrounded on 5 sides, and facing west. I get the afternoon/evening sun. The temp actually floats between 67-70 constantly. I can't remember the last time I heard the furnace kick on. When the kids come over, I might turn it up just a bit, but only if they complain!

RT

I'm not passing any judgments on having, not having lots of kids or any kids, but there is a really interesting lecture on population and oil production that is really worth a look. It's pretty big and goes for about an hour.

http://edison.ncssm.edu/programs/colloquia/bartlett.rm

or here

http://www.radnoesis.info/rnarchives...tts_lectur.php

The guy talks about how over population is going to be a problem, you can argue when it is going to be a problem but eventually population growth will stop. He says nature will pick from a list of solutions such as war, disease, starvation, unless we do something first.

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Originally Posted by LX_Emergency

I misunderstood Ilja. I used the word priviledge because I believe it's one we recieve from God. Sorry, I tend to let my religion influence my speak.

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Don't apologize if it's an integral part of your life, dude. I get fed up with the world expecting people who believe in God to apologize (keyword here being "world" NOT "SRP members"). While I don't agree with the muslim faith I HIGHLY respect the followers' dedication to their God. Be proud of your faith man. Doesn't mean you have to shove it down everyone's throat (and I don't think you ever have here), but don't let the worlds loudly spoken agnst against it bully you into submission.

If it's part of your character it's not religion, it's you.

As for the overpopulation thing, GREED is more of a factor damaging the environment than people. Westerners think the world is a disposable resource (in general) and prove it by the average lifestyle. It's one of the effects of the disease of industrialized capitalism. But that's a hotly contested debate all by itself that I'll try not to digress with here.

Yea I was trying to be humorous with my suggestions but It would really be cool if it were possible. I envy the amish of 30 years ago. Bikes and horses, candles and reusables, without intending to they really were doing a service for the environment. All that aside they led a hardworking, yet totally relaxed lifestyle.

Glen F