My first set of horn scales fail Joseph Roders

This razor restore drove me up a wall I even was up really late trying to make it work... My issue with this restore was that the blade was closing to the left all the way to the middle of the blade on the mock...

So here goes the breakdown of everything I did step by step to see what could have caused the issue... First off the horn was cut in half by me with a bandsaw being that it was 5mm think, I was going to try and fit it on one blank but it wasn't wide enough, So I had to use both sides of the cut for my scales... After I was done cutting the rough shape I realized the scales weren't flat, I then got double sided tape and clamped them together which did work very well to flatten them together for shaping... I drilled the wholes for the pins in which on one side looked center and the other looked a slew, I pressed on... while shaping I realized that one side of the horn was thinner than the rest due to my poorly cut horn... I pressed on and I had shaped them to the thickness at its thinnest point just so it could be even, which I believe turned out fine... Everything was looking great, from the belt sander 80-400 hand sanding 500-1200 took the tape off and set up the mock and that's when I hit the issue....

Had it been because of the miscut warped horn? The holes for the pivot pin not being centered on one side? Here are some pics I took, I didn't take much after it was done because it frustrated me so much lol so I may have screwed myself for a conclusion... I still have the horn so if more pics of that are needed

Oh this is my first set I had ever drawn out and not used a template
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I only finished the razor just so I could see what it would have looked like... I also tried to use 2 washers on one side, which honestly seeing how that made the razor look is something I'll never do again....

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The horn did have a really good finish but when I was unpinning the razor I wasn't being nice to the scales anymore... Lol

I think the problem stems from not starting with a flat blank. If the horn was 5mm and you cut it in half you are already near the minimum width - and that's before you start to flatten and sand.

If the blank is not completely flat then when you drill pivot and wedge holes you are taking a chance in terms of alignment - if that's out then the scales can easily pull to one side - hence your problem.

On the other hand it might be the blade.

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Originally Posted by UKRob

I think the problem stems from not starting with a flat blank. If the horn was 5mm and you cut it in half you are already near the minimum width - and that's before you start to flatten and sand.

If the blank is not completely flat then when you drill pivot and wedge holes you are taking a chance in terms of alignment - if that's out then the scales can easily pull to one side - hence your problem.

On the other hand it might be the blade.

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I made sure the razor was flat, that's what I was afraid it was... Another question would be is how to cut the horn? It's not wide enough to make scales from, do I just call it a losss

You know the more I think of it I used a polished side on one and I wanted to flatten the other side but it was too thin... So I didn't

You need to start with a piece of horn that is about 5" x 2" x 3/16" and make sure it is is flat by sanding both sides. Design your template and make sure the blank is big enough to take both scales. I like to sand the blank to about 400 grit because I can then see where the grain is running and what part I want to be the show side.

At this stage I cut the blank in two and tape the sides together with carpet tape. Using decorators tape on the top you can then draw the template and cut to size. Sand to more or less then final shape and then work out where the pivot hole needs to be - drill this with both sides stuck together, then decide where the wedge pin needs to be - using the razor and pivot hole. Drilling both the pivot and wedge pins while the two scales are stuck together gives you a great chance of making sure the holes are aligned, especially if you have a pillar drill.

After this you can contour the scales - I do this while they are still stuck together to ensure conformity. When you are happy with the outsides, separate the scales and work the insides a little.

+1 to what has been said.
Starting with a larger blank you won't be faced with trying to split it. Considering the thickness, the kerf, warping you'll end up with nothing to work with.
Now you said they were warped when you taped them together but they got flat . They should be flat before you tape them together. If not trying to pin scales like this will result in the blade not centering.

Next having the holes not symmetrical . Here too finishing the razor like this will cause the blade to not center .

Now assuming everything was flat and in alignment there are times when the heat from sanding can cause scales to warp. You have to keep checking . Also, if one scale is thicker it will not flex the same and this can cause alignment issues. Then too there Are the occasional blades where the shaft isnt ground the same on each side. Another source for misalignment.

Even if we assume ALL is straight as an arrow , pin holes are spot on, he shaft is ground perfectly just the act of improper pinning ( not tapping evenly on the head) can easily cause the blade to shift in the scales. Actually slight alignment issues can be solved by adjusting how you tap on a pin.
For me though I will not use spacer washers to try and center a blade. I'll fix the issues.

Thanks guys! That is exactly right the blank was already not flat before the shaping, I as going to flatten but at that point I realized it was waaay too thin on one side and I didn't want to make it thinner by flattening... I didn't think it would cause too many issues... this was great practice and I have been looking at these scales all day lol I was so worried about learning how round off my scales because I love the contour of scales..... What do u guys think of the shaping

Did you drill the holes with a drill press?
They NEED to be aligned PERFECTLY or your asking for trouble....

Oh yeah... Horn smells "great" too.. Doesn't it?
I sure hope you are OUTSIDE while sanding..... :)

The shape and design of scales is I believe your choice. Build what YOU want to see and how you want your razor to look. I'm sure pieces I build don't float everyone's boat but you also have to remember these aren't tattoos! You can change them tomorrow if you like . Or try your skills again and build another set. At this point the winning combination is you gave it a try. Learned a lot. And found you have a place to go to get a helping hand. That's too cool.

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Originally Posted by Chevhead

Did you drill the holes with a drill press?
They NEED to be aligned PERFECTLY or your asking for trouble....

Oh yeah... Horn smells "great" too.. Doesn't it?
I sure hope you are OUTSIDE while sanding..... :)

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I was in the garage with the door open, that and the bone wedge has an interesting smell lol.. I did use a press, what your saying is that I might not have had it perfectly flat when I drilled? Because I hit it right in mark on one side

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Originally Posted by Dafonz6987

I was in the garage with the door open, that and the bone wedge has an interesting smell lol.. I did use a press, what your saying is that I might not have had it perfectly flat when I drilled? Because I hit it right in mark on one side

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Yes, it might have been askew.
That could cause problems.

A lot of different things can contribute to off center blade. Warped scales, warped tang, bent pins, misaligned pivot or wedge holes, unevenly tapped pins, different thickness scales, etc...

I would start with wood as it is more accessible and much cheaper than horn. Wood also acts similar to wood in the fact that it has grain and is as easy to shape as horn. Any hard wood should do. After a few sets you'll get a better feel for razor mechanics and also get to play with design ideas. Check out micro fasteners. Com if you haven't already and get some #0 screws and nuts for mock up, it will save lots of time and material instead of pinning and unpinning.

Another thought for the OP - you didn't mention how you sand the blank - so I assume this is by hand. I always found that very laborious - especially when using wood, so I bought a bench sander which is also good for shaping scales when cut. By taping the blank to a thin paddle you can get a pretty accurate thickness from the sander. It's a good investment if you intend to make this a long term hobby.

If you don't want to invest in a bench sander, there are examples in the wiki of hand sanders turned upside down and held in a vice. It achieves the saame end.

Here's little tutorial I put together and one I use for making a set of horn scales by hand.
http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...ales-hand.html

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Originally Posted by UKRob

Another thought for the OP - you didn't mention how you sand the blank - so I assume this is by hand. I always found that very laborious - especially when using wood, so I bought a bench sander which is also good for shaping scales when cut. By taping the blank to a thin paddle you can get a pretty accurate thickness from the sander. It's a good investment if you intend to make this a long term hobby.

If you don't want to invest in a bench sander, there are examples in the wiki of hand sanders turned upside down and held in a vice. It achieves the saame end.

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Yeah I have a belt sander and after my progression I went to the sand sanding... So the paddle is supposed to be a flat surface u use to make sure ur applying even pressure? I really enjoyed shaping the horn it was a lot of fun getting it just right.... its funny out of all the things I prepared myself for this and all the videos and tutorials I never thought it would be the wedge I found the most challenging hahahaha

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Originally Posted by jfk742

A lot of different things can contribute to off center blade. Warped scales, warped tang, bent pins, misaligned pivot or wedge holes, unevenly tapped pins, different thickness scales, etc...

I would start with wood as it is more accessible and much cheaper than horn. Wood also acts similar to wood in the fact that it has grain and is as easy to shape as horn. Any hard wood should do. After a few sets you'll get a better feel for razor mechanics and also get to play with design ideas. Check out micro fasteners. Com if you haven't already and get some #0 screws and nuts for mock up, it will save lots of time and material instead of pinning and unpinning.

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About the scales, so after obsessing over it the last day I played with them a little more and with someone suggesting that it was because I didn't flatten them before taping them could have been the issue, I went ahead and put another razor into the scales first just by holding it at the pivot and it did the same exact thing... It was hanging waaaay off to the left, I had pinned it for the mock and still same thing... So no more cutting my blanks in half until I know I can do it accurately...

I see everyone having different types of wood, some that u even have to harden first... What's a good strong wood to start with?

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Originally Posted by Dafonz6987

What's a good strong wood to start with?

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Ebony is my FAVORITE.
It is a bit of a chore to sand it though.
It is HARD!

East Indian Rosewood is a NICE wood also!
Real pretty wood...

Watch for allergic reactions, WEAR A RESPIRATOR if you are working with exotic woods!!!!

White quarter sawn oak, walnut, hard maple, hickory, euro beech, etc... All those are easy to obtain and cheap. Like someone said before you can use your belt sander to flatten your scales. Personally I flatten one side of each scale then try and thickness same them to just over my desired thickness, then flatten them again on a sheet of 180-220 grit sand paper layer on a flat surface, once finished stick them together with either double sided tape or a sheet of paper and a few dabs of wood glue on either see and stick them together. I them take the template I designed and double side tad it to my scales and them shape it. Once I'm there, just a left a little larger than desired, I drill my pin and wedge holes with a drill press. Then Ito back t the belt sander and contour the scales, when I get close to the desired final shape I stop and start hand sanding. It's crucial you keep the scales even thicknesses. This is where using a sheet of paper I between can come in handy because it is easier to see where the scales meet and there fore gauge the thickness as you sand. I try to make it perfect as possible and do not separate the scales until I have made sure there as identical as possble and polished to my desired finish if horn, for wood I completely assemble the scales less the razor then finish with nitro lacquer. It is always easier to work on scales when they are stuck together.