Monster wedge build

Hi new member here,

Been rained off work so have been in the garage pottering around until 'I know I will make a straight razor'!

I had some 3mm 01 tool steel that I bought to make a knife so drew a shape and cut it out with a hacksaw and shaped it with a dremmel and files. Then just used different grit sandpaper stuck to a bit of glass and got it to the state you see.

I heated the blade to a dull red and quenched in oil then heated in an oven for an hour.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...pies/001-7.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...pies/002-9.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...pies/003-8.jpg

Found a bit of Zebrano wood and made some scales and used some brass for the spacer. Also found some brass 4mm machine screws and will peen these on later but have them just bolted on for now.

A couple of questions...

The wedge is a bit convex in shape and I had to use 10 layers of tape to have a go at honing. I got the toe and heel to pop hairs off my arm but struggled with the middle that didn't get as sharp. Should I remove more metal to get a true wedge shape or even make it a little hollow?

I have an 240, 800, 1200 and a 6000 grit waterstone set. Will this be enough to get it sharp enough or will I need to get a higher grit stone?

This is a beast to be sure and am not sure how practical it will be but it was fun making it.

Any tips or hints where to go from here gratefully received.

Thanks,

Steve.

Rain ?!? ... Where ?

Hot sunshine over here in Wembley .. eh eh eh .. 

Just joking ...
Looks good that big wedge .. I don't mind it at all !

Im not the most experienced guy in here for sure , but IMHO needs to get a bit higher than 6000 to get it kind of a shave ready .. 8000/12000 probably ?

Your bevel angle will probably not be as great as you want it unless you get the spine up off the hone by using tape or some other device during honing

You gonna use that on your face or in the kitchen? :-) :-) That puppy is huge --- but very cool looking. Might actually be big enough to shave both sides of your face at the same time. :-)

A couple more questions if I can?

Is there a minimum angle that will produce a good shave or should I try to get the finest edge I can? I am not too sure how successful my heat treating was but do the razors have to be as hard as possible or do they need a bit of tempering?

Have ordered a 10,000 grit Naniwa stone and some chromium oxide so will see if I can improve the edge.

Steve.

IMHO your grind is off.
Razors unlike knives have hollow grind. The spine is used as a guide for the honing angle, the edge is very thin and easy to hone.
Convex grind will require to sharpen the razor as if you sharpen a knife, and that will not give you as good an edge because you will be using more pressure, and also it will be harder to keep constant angle while honing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ateallthepies

A couple more questions if I can?

Is there a minimum angle that will produce a good shave or should I try to get the finest edge I can? I am not too sure how successful my heat treating was but do the razors have to be as hard as possible or do they need a bit of tempering?

Have ordered a 10,000 grit Naniwa stone and some chromium oxide so will see if I can improve the edge.

Steve.

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Did you take the metal to non magnetic for the heat treat? I too have always wondered about tempering a razor, I could be wrong but figured a razor might be a bit harder than a knife doing heavy work kinda like a wood carving knife in the 60's...I'm not able to answer any questions but I am curious what these get taken back to in tempering.

The tempering temperature for a razor, as I understand it, should be around 400 F. This would give you somewhere between 58 to 62 Rockwell. As I understand it, razors should be harder than a knife, but not untempered. If you don't temper it, it would shatter if you hit it with anything, or drop it. I am a beginner at all this, but I have an excellent teacher. Three successful razors, so far, and 3 more in process.

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Originally Posted by skipnord

The tempering temperature for a razor, as I understand it, should be around 400 F. This would give you somewhere between 58 to 62 Rockwell. As I understand it, razors should be harder than a knife, but not untempered. If you don't temper it, it would shatter if you hit it with anything, or drop it. I am a beginner at all this, but I have an excellent teacher. Three successful razors, so far, and 3 more in process.

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Many knives aremade in the HRC 61-63 range, there are also some that go all the way to 68 (ZDP-189)

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Originally Posted by mainaman

Many knives aremade in the HRC 61-63 range, there are also some that go all the way to 68 (ZDP-189)

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That's what I reckon, for an all round workhorse I aim for around 56-58 and a carver is over 60. Anyone know what a razor should be taken down to then? The heat treat is easy, no need for knowing temps, just a nice big magnet. It seems to be the tempering where the magic takes place for a decent edge with carbon steel...any idea how long to temper at 400 Skipnord? I really am curious, like many knifemakers I want to have a go at razors myself soon. Any advice would be appreciated!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasquatch

That's what I reckon, for an all round workhorse I aim for around 56-58 and a carver is over 60. Anyone know what a razor should be taken down to then? The heat treat is easy, no need for knowing temps, just a nice big magnet. It seems to be the tempering where the magic takes place for a decent edge with carbon steel...any idea how long to temper at 400 Skipnord? I really am curious, like many knifemakers I want to have a go at razors myself soon. Any advice would be appreciated!

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58-60 I think will be fine.

Thanks for that, that's easily done!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ateallthepies

A couple more questions if I can?

Is there a minimum angle that will produce a good shave or should I try to get the finest edge I can? I am not too sure how successful my heat treating was but do the razors have to be as hard as possible or do they need a bit of tempering?

Have ordered a 10,000 grit Naniwa stone and some chromium oxide so will see if I can improve the edge.

Steve.

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I would say 16 degrees +- one or two depending on the steel and the heat treat. It is an interesting razor and a good start. This is what it is all about, build, learn, and refine. Cool razor.

Charlie

For your honing, consider making it into a frameback. That'd save you at least some of the grinding to hollow it, though you might still need to hollow it close to the edge.

Or just make yourself a thingamy-bob to slide onto the spine when honing. My Bruno custom came with one and it works a treat.

James.

Thanks all for the advice, I think I will grind the convex shape out to a more hollow style to help me when I do a proper hone when my new stone comes.

Will update any progress as and when.

Steve.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasquatch

That's what I reckon, for an all round workhorse I aim for around 56-58 and a carver is over 60. Anyone know what a razor should be taken down to then? The heat treat is easy, no need for knowing temps, just a nice big magnet. It seems to be the tempering where the magic takes place for a decent edge with carbon steel...any idea how long to temper at 400 Skipnord? I really am curious, like many knifemakers I want to have a go at razors myself soon. Any advice would be appreciated!

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Hi Sasquatch
I would go for around 2 hours. Some folks say to let it cool, and give it a second round. I did mine with Mike Blue in his molten salt setup, so tempering is part of the quenching process - 400 degree salt quench. I'm going to try using 400 degree peanut oil when I heat treat at home.