W. Greaves & Son Goes back On The Line.

Here is a W.Greaves & Son that I picked up in an Antique shop this afternoon. I thought in the beginning that the scales were wood, I even looked close. So I decided to work on it today.

I used EZ-Off on the wood to pull out any oils or crap from over the years. I’ve had good success on old rifle stocks in the past. I washed of the EZ Off and the scales smelled like a dead animal. I used dish soap & 0000 Steel wool to clean them off. The smell did pretty much go away after the cleaning.

This is what was left after the cleaning. I have no idea what the heck kind of scales these are. They have horizontal ridges that go from the heal to the toe. Here’s the strange part, no matter how much I sand, the ridges remain, yes, material gets removed as expected, but the ridges don’t go away , nor do they seem to be effected by the sanding.

I am hoping you guys can tell me what type of scales I have.The scales & pins appear to be original & the wedge is lead.
I honed it & will test it in the morning; frankly I think it will fail. This is a razor that I will display, until I revisit it again, after I get more time on the hones.
Thanks for your time.

Attachment 113558Attachment 113563Attachment 113562Attachment 113561Attachment 113560Attachment 113559

The after cleaning photos:

Attachment 113564Attachment 113565Attachment 113566Attachment 113567Attachment 113568

actual tortoise perhaps ?? of course im guessing and have no knowledge though , just a guess so no laughing .. lol

but very fine job on the clean up !!! i wish half of mine came out that clean ...man thats nice !!

Thanks Gooser, I don't know what tortoise shell actually looks like, other that the nasty looking one that crawl out of the swamp or the nice looking little box turtles. :shrug:

Amazing transformation, well done, i would have thought horn, which has its own distinct smell,no knowledge of tortoise shell, but either way, a very nice end result. I bet it shaves like a champ once you sort it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hirlau

Thanks Gooser, I don't know what tortoise shell actually looks like, other that the nasty looking one that crawl out of the swamp or the nice looking little box turtles. :shrug:

---

i dont either but after cleaned up it looked like some of the imitation tortoise scales ive saw on new razors ..lol.. or perhaps a type of horn ?? we will see later when more folks are awake ... lol..i do know that if i keep seeing these styles of blades im gonna have to start getting some cause the more i see the more i want ... !!

Lovely Razor. Spanish point to Awesome find.

I'm 95% certain that you have some authentic tortoise shell scales there, friend :)

I guess I had better keep it in a box so it don't crawl away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hirlau

I guess I had better keep it in a box so it don't crawl away.

---

no tortoise not box turtle ...lol hey just remember i said that first !! ( by all a guess ..lol ) sssooooo is the razor my reward ??? lol.. i still cant get over how it looks ... night and day difference !!!

Looks like the combs my grandmother had of turtle shell! Very nice! Get her shaving! Double O

From: http://reviews.ebay.com/TORTOISESHEL...00000012067858

Care of turtle shell.

Avoid storing tortoiseshell in conditions of excessive heat, humidity or dryness. Turtle shell objects should not be exposed to direct sunlight for any extended period as this can cause them to take on an unattractive greyish hue as the surface moisture dries out.

Turtle shell objects should not be immersed in water, as this will remove the polish. Placing the item in hot water will leave the surface looking dull and pitted and the polish can only be restored by re-buffing. Dirt and finger marks can usually be removed by a simple wipe over with a damp cloth and then a careful polish and dry.

Another hazard for shell combs and those in other materials is the residue left from sticky labels. This can be removed with a small amount of white spirit (turpentine) or piece of impregnated wadding which are sold for cleaning metal jewellery. Following removal the area should be carefully cleaned and polished.

Cleaning with any kind of alcohol or spirit (such as methylated spirits or methanol) should be avoided as this tends to draw the natural oils from the surface and leave it dull and lustreless. The use of aerosol polishes containing silicone should also be avoided as these are not suitable for turtle shell. A light wax such as beeswax is suitable for preserving the shine of shell combs.

Shell combs are often discovered in a dull and scuffed condition. Some conservators recommend soaking in light vegetable oil to restore the natural moisture of objects whose surface has lost their lustre. This should be followed by a vigorous buffing with chamois leather or soft lint free. This will restore much of the surface shine and help to disguise light scratches. However deep scratches or nicks will always be visible when the polished surface is held in a certain light.

Enjoy Double O

I think T also,very nice pce.

I'm a little bit jealous, I've been looking for some real tortoise scales on a nice razor.

Very nice transformation Indeed great work! I would never think grom the first pic that the scales are tortoise. Enjoy!
Might want to try this:
Being made from living animal plates of genuine shell exhibit growth rings and variations of colouration which produce the random mottled patterns which are characteristic of the material. When examined under a microscope or good quality loupe genuine turtle shell has an unmistakable three dimensional quality which is impossible for even the most skilfully made synthetics to imitate exactly.

its so very hard to differentiate turtle from horn. Both were processed in such a similar matter.

my guess would be turtle, but without holding it in my hands, I could never say for sure (even then my opinion would be suspect!) Either way, fantastic job on the clean up! :tu

My guess is Horn. A blonde or honey color. The horn that I've worked on has the same grain as it's essentially hair. Just now I grabbed an old scale, sanded, sanded,sanded and the grains were still there. Only once I polished it did they disappear as you can see in the photos. Also, I shot three pieces in blonde horn. The bottom two haven't been touched and exhibit the same graining, but the top one polished out just fine.
I also included two of my W&Bs in genuine tortoise shell. Working on these they didn't show the same graining patters of the horn. They instead almost appeared as if they were layers on layers ( some separation can still be seen along the edges)
I also included some slabs of honey horn showing the mottled look that can be found in it and as you can see by the one pic, it too will appear yellowish with the streaking and will ultimately be translucent as well.
Chances are as well that if you touch a hot pin to the inside of the scale, it'll smell like burning hair.

Just my .02 worth.

Attachment 113588

Attachment 113587

Attachment 113585

Attachment 113586

Attachment 113589

Attachment 113590

Attachment 113591

Nice looking stuff guys,if you do the hot pin test and it smell like fish,than it may be Tortoise:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pixelfixed

Nice looking stuff guys,if you do the hot pin test and it smell like fish,than it may be Tortoise:)

---

The only thing with the test is that you would mark the scales with the hot pin. Read thru the link I send you and use a loop to see if you can tell the difference from painted horn vs. real turtle. I think is real, but would need to see it in person to give you a better opinion, with my limited knowledge of shell.

Either way it looks very good! Double O

Well the test would be done on the inside of the scales , and after doing mine, it leaves a negligible mark. But the test isn't conclusive because they'd both smell essentially the same. Basically the same material as is our hair or nails.
At one time horn was used quite a bit to imitate tortoise shell by having artists paint it. The way to conclusively tell would be to cut the scales and see just how the colors are in/on the surface or go through. Although a mottled horn would act the same but the pigments are dispersed differently. The other thing is, shell grows in concentric circles as the shells get larger and I don't believe the first photos show this but rather the long grains associated with horn.

My first guess would be horn. I've seen a lot of horn have that translucent brown-orange look. Especially with the ridges you're describing. Incredible what was hidden under all that grime either way, nice save.

Edit: here's another greaves with similar looking scales, and these I know are horn: http://straightrazorpalace.com/show-...-shepherd.html

Nice razor, Hirlau! I thought it was horn in the first pic. I have seen some guys clean off the original dye and crud and have a honey color to them. With the graining on them in the before pics, I think horn.
I have not seen a Greaves with original Turtle, but hey! It could be! Nice save!
"Greaveses have souls"
Tom

Very nice restore. Congratulations!

Do you use mainly sandpaper and a buffer or only sandpaper?

Dave

Congratulations on an awesome find there Hirlau !

She's an absolute beauty :tu

That is the kind of razor i always search out now.

Mike

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rolodave

Very nice restore. Congratulations!

Do you use mainly sandpaper and a buffer or only sandpaper?

Dave

---

I had sanded it, I probably should have used the buffer, but my skill level is not that good with the buffer & I was afraid of hitting the scales with the buffer.

[QUOTE=mycarver;1064907]
I also included two of my W&Bs in genuine tortoise shell. Working on these they didn't show the same graining patters of the horn. They instead almost appeared as if they were layers on layers ( some separation can still be seen along the edges)
Chances are as well that if you touch a hot pin to the inside of the scale, it'll smell like burning hair.
[QUOTE=mycarver]

I hate to tell you this, but I'm 100% certain one of your two W&B in tortoise shell is actually in horn - and I think the other one is in some sort of plastic or bake light if not horn, but def/ not real shell - even though you say they don't act like your horn. Also, the hot pin test smelling like burning hair test - I'm pretty sure you get the burning hair smell on shell too, as they are both made of the same material, but I would talk to Lynn or Glen or one of those who has certainly seen the genuine article repeatedly and done real tests on it. The hot pin test is usually used to distinguish ivory from look alikes. Look at the OP's tortoise shell pictures - the shell looks nothing like translucent honey horn, as the mottling is not in streaks but "blotches" that no not have hard edges, and the clear areas are not completely clear. They made tons of horn scales to look like shell - I've thrown away dozens of broken horn scales that look like your second wade and butchers scales, sorry to say :(