Vintage Norton Hone Restoration Project

Well here's my latest project that will take more time and 'thunk'n' than I care to think about.

I Damn Near pulled a 'Glen' by getting excited and starting on it 'Before Taking Pictures' hehehe

It's an 'Older' Norton Tri Hone and unlike the 'Newer Ones' it's not made of plastic. Instead the base is made of Cast Iron and the Cover is Stamped Steel

Here's some pics of how it looks now;

Attachment 200208

Attachment 200209

Attachment 200210

Attachment 200211

As you can see I had started taking out the brass rivets that held the cover plate when I figured out that I need to take some pictures.

Micro Fasteners's round headed rivets are too small and I'm searching for some round headed brass rivets with a shaft Dia of 3/32". Found one place but I'll keep the search on as I don't need 1000 rivets.

Once I get the small name plate off I"m planning on taking the cover and base to my local automotive machine shop for a ride in their hot acid 'dishwasher' to remove the paint and oil.

My next headache is getting the steel rivets out that hold that small name plate.

good luck my friend, that will be awesome when complete ,, make sure to keep us updated on the progress :gl: tc

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

good luck my friend, that will be awesome when complete ,, make sure to keep us updated on the progress :gl: tc

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Thanks my friend! Well instead of fixing nurisment and getting ready for bed as I have to be up at 2AM I decided to see if I could figure out how to get that small name plate off without damaging it.

It's held in with steel round point rivets and I'd tried using the same cutters that I'd used on the brass ones on the lid to 'pull' the rivets out and all they did was slip off.

Time for a beer and some Thunk'in.

I knew that I didn't want to actually 'shear' them as then I'd have even less to try to grab onto. So I thought about trying to 'leverage' them out. I dug out a chisel that I 'thought' would work. Here;

Attachment 200222

As you can see it went really well. Just a few 'Tap, Tap, Taps and the pins had raised enough to use the tool mentioned to pull them out. They were only embedded about 3/16".

Now that all of the name plates are off I can make sure that everything that I want to have run though the Acid Dishwasher are ready to go.

The base has something similar to the stuff that you see on some door steps/a Black Abrasive Material. Well I'm sure that at between 8-9 lbs that cast iron will Not Be Going Anywhere so I'll look at some rubber or leather for the base to protect any surface it sits on.

Off for some Tacos and Refried Beans, then beddy bye

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Originally Posted by cudarunner

As you can see I had started taking out the brass rivets that held the cover plate when I figured out that I need to take some pictures.
Micro Fasteners's round headed rivets are too small and I'm searching for some round headed brass rivets with a shaft Dia of 3/32". Found one place but I'll keep the search on as I don't need 1000 rivets.
...snip...
My next headache is getting the steel rivets out that hold that small name plate.

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Buy... Escutcheon pins at a hardware store. They come in various diameters and were probably used originally to set the plate. They are sometime twisted little square shank nails with a round head, like a rivet. Use for putting ID plates on a lot of items over the years.
~Richard

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Originally Posted by Geezer

Buy... Escutcheon pins at a hardware store. They come in various diameters and were probably used originally to set the plate. They are sometime twisted little square shank nails with a round head, like a rivet. Use for putting ID plates on a lot of items over the years.
~Richard

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Thanks Richard,

I did a little online searching and now I have to figure out what I need vs the wire gauge measurements as I don't know what 18 gauge vs 16 gauge etc will be compared to my needed 3/32nds for the shaft size. 'If' the heads are smaller than original I could use brass washers for pinning razors to make it a more sanitary installation.

Thanks again my friend :bow:

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Originally Posted by cudarunner

Thanks Richard,

I did a little online searching and now I have to figure out what I need vs the wire gauge measurements as I don't know what 18 gauge vs 16 gauge etc will be compared to my needed 3/32nds for the shaft size. 'If' the heads are smaller than original I could use brass washers for pinning razors to make it a more sanitary installation.

Thanks again my friend :bow:

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American wire gauge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You may be able to get them by decimal or fractional diameter. Old line hardware store is your answer.
I use the 14Ga for pinning.(0.063/ 1/16th")
~Richard
I have found them in 0.093 / 3/32" Don't yet remember where.

I recently came across one in my dad's shop. Any idea where I could find replacements parts? It's missing one of the handlesAttachment 250354

From what 'I' can see don't you have both handles? Isn't the one on the Right in the Blue Diamond still attached to the shaft and the one in the Red Circle just needing to be reattached?

Attachment 250356

As far as replacement parts, you'll find replacement stones at Norton including an Arkansas Hard Black. 'IF' the handle is actually missing you'll need to try and find one online OR you could have one made but that would be pricey.

It's an allusion from the angle of the picture. Thanks for the info! I might get lucky on eBay. Wish I had the name plate too.

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Originally Posted by Mandi

It's an allusion from the angle of the picture. Thanks for the info! I might get lucky on eBay. Wish I had the name plate too.

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Good luck! They are great for knives.
~Richard

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Originally Posted by Geezer

Good luck! They are great for knives.
~Richard

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I would say that they are not 'great' for knives as they are Excellent For Knives! :w

I spent a lot of my high school off time with one by my meat cutting block at a shop and summers in a kitchen as a sous chef. Got the upgrade to chef after honing the chef's Prime Rib knife to hair popping. Proved I was trainable.
~Richard

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Originally Posted by cudarunner

I would say that they are not 'great' for knives as they are Excellent For Knives! :w

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I remember seeing one of them unceremoniously thrown to the ground when I was at Roosy Rhodes in PR in 99. Apparently one of the Mess Specialists at one point had put veg oil in the housing and all over the stone and it had gelled up and got rancid and nasty on it. It got thrown out and I almost cried. It looked new other than what the moron had put it through.

Well I finally got my restore of this Norton Tri-Hone Finished. I'm a bit ashamed that it's been about three years since I started. I have a modern one so this project has been sitting on the back burner just waiting for O'l Cuda to get off his dead ass and on his dying feet and finish it up.

I initially thought that the original color was pretty much a very light lime green (See the original pics). However after taking the stones off of the chassis I found that either A: the oil had preserved the color and it was much darker OR B. the oil darkened the color. I went with A.

Here's a pic of the chassis: The area in the red box is to show the color I found. The blue box is to show the original leather pads.

Attachment 306884

I had some left over lye water from cleaning up some cast iron but it was in a 3 gallon bucket however I could soak 3/4's of it at a time so I just kept changing ends. This took about a week and a half. Then I made my own acid tank using a 5 gallon plastic bucket and lye with 1.5 lbs of lye to 4 gallons of water. I let it soak for about a week to 10 days. Then after a good rinsing I used a friend's glass beading booth to clean it up.

I had cleaned up the plate on both the base and the cover. I was able to re-use the pins at the base but wasn't able to come up with pins for the top/at least not without either bending the top (I worked so hard to get the dents out) OR scratching the paint so I used some small stainless steel nuts and bolts with a drop of blue LocTite to make sure they stayed put.

Attachment 306888

I used an etching primer from VHT and a primer paint from RUST-OLEUM (Spring Green).

I believe the unit had the original stones and while the Fine India was in pretty good shape the coarse crystolon was broken and the medium crystolon was well worn.

Since I rarely ever use the coarse crystolon I didn't replace it instead I bought a new medium crystolon, a Fine India and a Hard Arkansas (White not Black)

The original had a sandpaper glued to the bottom. It was made by The Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Company (3M). While I could have reused it I went with an 1/8" thick styrene butadiene rubber pad so it wouldn't scratch any counter tops or table tops.

The original leather pads were crumbling so I made new ones from some upholstery leather I had here at The Boars Nest. I don't know what they had used to coat the handles black with but even with a good de-greasing, scuffing and the etching primer the paint rubbed right off so I cleaned the paint off and buffed them up a bit.

So here's the finished project.

Attachment 306889

Attachment 306890

Attachment 306891

Attachment 306892

Thanks for looking :tu

It took a while, but damn, looks great!

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Originally Posted by Magpie

It took a while, but damn, looks great!

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Thank you.

The actual 'Physical Labor' wasn't all that much. I had spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make reproductions of the brass rivets for the top plate and I finally lost interest so to the shelf in the garage in a box went all of the parts.

I used to keep my modern Tri-Hone right beside the box so I'd see it every once in awhile and think that 'I need to get back to that' but there always seemed to be something else that was more important so it just sat.

I have decided that if the paint doesn't hold up that when my buddy comes up from the San Diego area I'll strip it back down and have him take it home as there is a really nice powder coating outfit right where he lives and then just have them re-due it in a similar color. They have samples that he could bring home and send to me to choose from. Shipping would be a bitch but doable. (I don't have a bathroom type scale so tomorrow I'm taking it down to my buddy Ski to show him and I'll weigh it there (Ski is the one who gave it to us).

I'm pretty sure that the handles are either cast aluminum or just pot metal as they aren't magnetic so I don't think they would survive the heat needed to melt and set the powder coating to make them black.

While the stainless steel nuts and bolts aren't original I do think that if someone hadn't seen an original that they would pass as OEM.

My Goodness Roy that looks fantastic!!!! Wow 😮!! I am in awe of your before and after pics. Kathy

Good job, Roy

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Originally Posted by Leadmeknot

My Goodness Roy that looks fantastic!!!! Wow 😮!! I am in awe of your before and after pics. Kathy

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Originally Posted by rolodave

Good job, Roy

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Thanks to both of you.

I got the unit from my buddy Ski. Well actually my son got it from Ski and I traded my son my modern version for the cast iron.

When my son and his girlfriend got an apartment of their own he didn't take his Norton and I asked him 'why' and he said they didn't have the room so his has stayed here.

I took the restore to Ski's today so he could see it and he was impressed. He's got a pretty good memory and after a bit of thinking he's sure that he got it from when he was working at the Colfax WA Safeway and that would be about 45-50 years ago (Ski started working at Safeway when he was 16 years old). However he didn't have a clue how old it actually is.

I am pleased with how it came out. If the paint doesn't hold up I'm leaning toward having the stamped steel cover, the chassis and the base powder coated.

And of course since I've got it put together I had an idea on how to make brass pins to replace the SS screws pop into my head today :banghead: Well maybe later. :shrug:

I did some research and found this bit of info. The patent was filed in 1933 and apparently granted in 1934. I'd found the patent number on the top plate but I have no idea of how to determine when it was actually manufactured as I can't see any dates or codes. In fact parts of the stamping are just plain worn off. Oh Well.

Attachment 306967

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Originally Posted by cudarunner

I did some research and found this bit of info. The patent was filed in 1933 and apparently granted in 1934. I'd found the patent number on the top plate but I have no idea of how to determine when it was actually manufactured as I can't see any dates or codes. In fact parts of the stamping are just plain worn off. Oh Well.

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I've contacted Sharpening Supplies asking for help dating my IM 313, I included a before and after pic. (They are going to do some research for me).

I received a response saying that they are looking to see what they can tell me.

They also complimented me on the restore and asked for more details and pics. Seems they have recently added a 'Show and Tell' to the website.

Here's the link to my 'Page':
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/C...-313-W221.aspx


(I have contacted Norton Saint-Gobain Abrasives and sent them pictures but haven't heard anything more from them.)

Turned out great Roy! Were those designed to hold a reservoir of oil or just catch the drippings? I wonder if the black knobs were originally coated with what they call Japan black?

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Originally Posted by tintin

Turned out great Roy! Were those designed to hold a reservoir of oil or just catch the drippings? I wonder if the black knobs were originally coated with what they call Japan black?

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Thanks tin. Originally they (both this vintage and the more modern plastic ones) were designed to have a reservoir of oil, however I use a squirt bottle of food grade oil (basically fancy mineral oil) and just add as I need (less chance of spilling).

I have no idea about the Japan Black, all I know is that I put a lot of effort into making sure that the surface was free from oil and was scuffed up well and when the primer and paint were dried for a couple of days it would rub off with a finger. It also came off with simple acetone soak (5 minutes).

I'm planning my ride for this summer and hopefully it'll include some time with my best friend in El Cajon CA and they have a really nice powder coating place so I may take the handles with me and ask them if they can be powder coated in black (you wouldn't believe how many 'Black' colors they have) :rofl2:

:tu

What are the dimensions of the stones?

Apparently they have used the same sized stones on the IM 313 since 1934 and that is 11.5" X 2.5" X 1/2".

I actually like the older system of attaching the stones to the carriage as you only deal with one stone at a time. The new ones you have to mess with two stones at the same time. I actually had to help a cutter as she'd taken a stone off to flip it over and she couldn't get the damn thing back together.

That is what I assumed.

But you know it is not good to assume!

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Originally Posted by 32t

That is what I assumed.

But you know it is not good to assume!

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I haven't used the word 'Assume' in conversation in about 30 years. My store manager (Jim) wanted something done but I had the next two days off so I showed the guy who would be taking my place what was needed and I wrote a note and left it on the desk.

I came back to find the task not done and before I could get it done I was called to the office and Jim asked why his request hadn't been done. I explained that I'd showed my replacement was was to be done and that I'd even left a note to remind him and I had 'assumed' that it would be done.

Jim whipped out a pen and a piece of paper, wrote something down then gave it to me. When I looked at what he'd written he made sure I understood as he said: "All assume does is make an ASS out of YOU and ME"!

From that day forward I've always use 'Presume'.

Jim died way too early. He left two girls, one in Junior High and one in High School. I always liked him as you always knew where you stood with him----You may not like knowing where that was but you always knew.

Thank you Roy, your words always resonate with me.
This "assume" story reminds me of my own progression..
As I grew/growing up, my focus on integrity, honesty, responsibility, etc., became not something to be avoided but to be embraced. These became defining characteristics of self and hold great value.

I never liked blunt, brusque people, with no filter. Now I appreciate them.

Because of something you wrote to me once, I changed something about how I deal with my son...
Now I let him know that I expect more out of him because I know he can achieve more. It's working.
:chapeau

Excellent restore job on that hone!
This is a great example that there are other very rewarding restores out there beyond the usual razor and brush.
Nice color choice.
:chapeau