How do you carry a fountain pen?

Won't bore you guys with details, but recently I was lucky enough to have a S.T. Dupont fountain pen and ballpoint set passed onto me. They are wonderfully understated (black Chinese lacquer, slim, gold trim).

But I'm having problems with the fountain pen. No matter how I carry it around (suit pen pocket, briefcase) the damn thing splatters ink inside the cap so that when I uncap it I have to clean off the ink before using it. It's not leaking as such, but I guess the knocking about when kept in jacket pen pocket or when I set my briefcase down etc. is causing a little splatter. It's very annoying.

I'm careful to ensure it's always kept nib-upwards when being carried, and even though I try to avoind bumping or sudden movements, the splattering still happens.

Some of you guys are very into your pens here, so I'm wondering if there's something I can do (or NOT do) that might solve the problem?

Cheers
M.

Bummer! There's no use in a pen that won't work properly or cannot be caried around no matter how careful you are. But I have no idea what might be the problem. I' for one, never had a problem with my pens and I tend to be a bit sloppy sometimes. Maybe someone will chime in and help you solve this problem.
In the meanwhile I just might sugest you have it checked by a specialized/oficial Dupont retailer? Maybe they can spot something wrong or send it to the factory. It does have a "forever and ever" garantee policy, right?

It sounds like it needs repairing. Nib up is the preferred method of carry, and if it's leaking ink like that, I think the nib is bad. Or, it could be the ink. What are you using?

I've had similar problems with 1) cheap pens (not a problem here), 2) VERY broad nibs, seems the larger ink-path might lead to some splatter, especially if handled at all roughly and usually in conjunction with 3) Very thin ink. I know some of the colors and companies I used were very thin. I think the old Visconti ink, made for super-fine nibs, was very thin, and would get messy in big Western nibs.

or, your nib needs attention from a pro.

Believe it or not, it is most likely not the shaking that makes it leak. In a word, it's heat. Heat from your body causes the air in the pen (there's always some, no matter how full the pen is) to warm up and expand. When this happens, the pressure in the pen rises. Not much, but enough to push some ink out.

Now, most well designed pens will have a breather hole in the nib that a. allows air into the pen as ink is flowing out and b. allows air out of the pen when there is a pressure imbalance. It would seem to me that your breather hole is not working, and in my own pens, I have observed two causes:

1. the hole is clogged with old ink. Solution: easy, flush the pen with warm water several times to clean it
2. your ink feed is adjusted badly, so that air cannot leave the pen without taking ink with it. Solution: not so easy, either adjust it yourself or send it to someone like Richard Binder who can adjust it for you.

I've had this happen with a Wality ED-fill, and my issue was a dirty and clogged breather hole, which resulted in the pen slowly weeping ink even when kept nib up, when it got warm.

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Originally Posted by jockeys

1. the hole is clogged with old ink. Solution: easy, flush the pen with warm water several times to clean it

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Jockey, I agree wholeheartedly with your explanation - except for your recommended solution - since the passageway on most fountain pens is VERY tiny, and since it is susceptible to temperature change, always use COLD water to flush out a pen - you eliminate the risk of cracking the ink feed, as well as have the added benefit of opening up the passageway through contraction of the (most likely) plastic.

Waterman won't even warranty a pen that has been rinsed in warm water for this reason - it completely ruins the pen. Rinse at your own risk...

Mark

Having read that Waterman don't like you to use warm water to rinse the pen makes me chuckle. I believe it, but it still makes me chuckle.

I used a Waterman from aged 11 to aged 23 all the way through my education.
The pen would regularly bung up with dry ink especially if left unattended over a long hot summer. You are supposed to flush the ink out and flush the pen with water if your not using it for a period. Try telling that to an eleven year old.
Anyway, I would flush the pen under running water and then I would fill a cup full of water and flush the pen using its filling mechanism. Then if I could not see the water coming out of the breath holes, I would carefully pull the nib and resevoire out from the pen holder and give it all a another good rinse and blow through the air holes with a mouth full of water. Bung it all back together and bingo, good for another year. If I'd broken it, my Dad would have killed me. But since just about every other kid in the school new how to do it, it wasn't difficult to learn.

When you pull it all out, you must not grab the tip of the pen or you will split the nib. You must grab the base.

Come to think of it, it may be best to send it to a specialist if washing and flushing doesn't work. Or just leave the pen in water over night.

Second thoughts, send it to a specialist. At least he should have spare parts if things go wrong.

Thanks guys. Wow, I had no idea about the intricacies of pens.

• it's not the ink as it happened with both the supplied Dupont cartridges as well as the bottle ink I've bought (Lamy).
• it's not broadness of nib, because it's only a Medium.
• it could well be the airhole.

Whatever the real reason, I'm going to take it to a Dupont dealer to fix, because there's no way I'm making the same mistake with my new pen as I did with my new razor when I was a noob. I just about ruined the edge on my Dovo from poor honing because I didn't know what I was doing.

As Dubya famously said once: "Fool me once, shame... um... shame on you. Fool me again... erm... you ain't gonna fool me again."

I agree that that's the best thing to do. (My Parker is currently awaiting repairs, but I've always carried a fountain pen in my shirt or inside jacket pocket.) Let us know how it works out.

~Rich

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Originally Posted by Milton Man

Jockey, I agree wholeheartedly with your explanation - except for your recommended solution - since the passageway on most fountain pens is VERY tiny, and since it is susceptible to temperature change, always use COLD water to flush out a pen - you eliminate the risk of cracking the ink feed, as well as have the added benefit of opening up the passageway through contraction of the (most likely) plastic.

Waterman won't even warranty a pen that has been rinsed in warm water for this reason - it completely ruins the pen. Rinse at your own risk...

Mark

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by warm I mean room temperature and not hot. I think of cold water as having ice in it, which would be equally at risk of damaging the pen. my mistake, I should have specified what I meant.

Jockeys, thanks for both your explanation and your clarification. I will keep both in mind once I get my pen back.

~Rich

I carried a variety of fountain pens for many years and during the rotation some would just have the ink dry up in the nib. You could soak it in cold water for a month of Sundays and nothing would happen. I would soak it in warm water and blow it out with my mouth. it worked every time. As far as the leaking pen goes it needs to be serviced. Sometimes if a tiny amount of ink dries in the nib the pen will still work but it can upset the feed and cause leaks also.

I attended a school (a long time ago) where it was forbidden to use a ballpoint for any exams, prep, homework etc. I tried most of the good pens Parker, Shaeffer etc., but nothing seemed to write as well as a cheap pen made by Platignum in the UK. Times change,on starting at university my daughter was told only printed work was acceptable for marking. I'm interested to know why anyone would carry a fountain pen these days. Most if not all paperwork in my job is created with a keyboard and printer. Any handwriting seems to be on NCR multipart forms. Even Doctors (Physicians US?) generate prescriptions by computer these days.
I do use a fountain pen to write my Christmas cards and the very occasional personal letter.

I had a similar issue with a Diplomat / MB149 in the past. Many Montblancs have an issue with ink "sweating" in the cap, transfer this to the end of the pen when the cap is posted, then onto your hand and shirt pocket.

How is the inkflow in you pen - do you find it too wet, or does it blot? I agree that if it leaks like that, the problem may be with the nib or feed. Taking it to a dealer may be a good idea. You may also want to send it to a nibmeister like Richard Binder to check out and adjust if needed.

My parker has never developed this problem for some reason, dunno why... It's completely leak free and I've never done anything but changing the cartridges...

I had this problem with the current Waterman I am using. The problem with mine was that the ink reservoir was faulty and did not fit precisely into the receiver or whatever it is called, causing the ink to leak. Waterman provided me with a new reservoir and the pen has worked fine for years.

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Originally Posted by welshwizard

I attended a school (a long time ago) where it was forbidden to use a ballpoint for any exams, prep, homework etc. I tried most of the good pens Parker, Shaeffer etc., but nothing seemed to write as well as a cheap pen made by Platignum in the UK. Times change,on starting at university my daughter was told only printed work was acceptable for marking. I'm interested to know why anyone would carry a fountain pen these days. Most if not all paperwork in my job is created with a keyboard and printer. Any handwriting seems to be on NCR multipart forms. Even Doctors (Physicians US?) generate prescriptions by computer these days.
I do use a fountain pen to write my Christmas cards and the very occasional personal letter.

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Ha ha, yes, indeed, why would anyone carry a fountain pen these days? In fact, why would anyone shave with a straight razor? ;)

The fountain pen was passed to me by my father. I've never felt the need to use one since school. But there's something inherently enjoyable in signing off a contract at work, or indeed anything requiring signatures, with an ink pen.

One thing that has been an unexpected pleasure is that fountain pens seem to make me take a little more time and care in the writing. With a ballpoint you can scrawl very quickly, but with a fountain pen it seems (to me at least) that you need to take a little more care. Apart from a better looking outcome (the appearance of the writing), the enjoyment I've found from this is very much like the enjoyment I get from shaving with a straight in that it forces me to take more care and time over the shave (compared to a cartridge razor).

Cartridge razor = disposable ballpoint
Straight razor = fountain pen
:thinking:

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Originally Posted by majurey

Ha ha, yes, indeed, why would anyone carry a fountain pen these days? In fact, why would anyone shave with a straight razor? ;)

:thinking:

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I suppose the difference is that you can shave very well indeed every day with a straight razor but a fountain pen is limited to an office environment for most practical purposes.I'd guess mostly for just adding a signature to various printed documents. Nearly all of my written communication at work is via various forms of electronic data exchange. Even out of work, Open University assignments are mostly e-mailed Word documents these days, nothing on paper.
I don't like the reliance on modern technology, but to earn a living, I have no choice but to use it. However, I can choose what I shave with.

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Originally Posted by majurey

One thing that has been an unexpected pleasure is that fountain pens seem to make me take a little more time and care in the writing. With a ballpoint you can scrawl very quickly, but with a fountain pen it seems (to me at least) that you need to take a little more care. Apart from a better looking outcome (the appearance of the writing), the enjoyment I've found from this is very much like the enjoyment I get from shaving with a straight in that it forces me to take more care and time over the shave (compared to a cartridge razor).

Cartridge razor = disposable ballpoint
Straight razor = fountain pen
:thinking:

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That is primarily why I use a fountain pen. My penmanship is so poor that a fountain pen with it's increased friction on the writing surface forces me to slow down and make my writing more legible. Aside from that I just like using old fashioned stuff. There is pride and art in the workmanship of the stuff and there is pride and art in using it.

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Originally Posted by welshwizard

I suppose the difference is that you can shave very well indeed every day with a straight razor but a fountain pen is limited to an office environment for most practical purposes.I'd guess mostly for just adding a signature to various printed documents. Nearly all of my written communication at work is via various forms of electronic data exchange. Even out of work, Open University assignments are mostly e-mailed Word documents these days, nothing on paper.
I don't like the reliance on modern technology, but to earn a living, I have no choice but to use it. However, I can choose what I shave with.

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Ahh, another Open University Alumni! I remember well the distance learning software I had to use for joining online tutorials etc. This was years before GoToMeeting was invented. TMAs were just starting to be submitted via the internet when I was doing my degree. In those environments, pens were about as useful as a fish with a bike.

But outside of that, real life dictates I have to use a pen to sign off with. Legally, our contracts and agreements and licenses are worth zip with a digital signature or a scanned signature. It has to be real, and it has to be ink. Or it's not worth the paper its printed on.

It is a strange dichotomy. So many situations (e.g. with the bank) will accept documents via fax, but not via an email attachment. There should be no difference, but :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Milton Man

Jockey, I agree wholeheartedly with your explanation - except for your recommended solution - since the passageway on most fountain pens is VERY tiny, and since it is susceptible to temperature change, always use COLD water to flush out a pen - you eliminate the risk of cracking the ink feed, as well as have the added benefit of opening up the passageway through contraction of the (most likely) plastic.

Waterman won't even warranty a pen that has been rinsed in warm water for this reason - it completely ruins the pen. Rinse at your own risk...

Mark

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Greetings!

Are you certain that this information is accurate? I have a fair amount of experience with fountain pens (typically vintage) and when I ask about special care instructions they mention tap water and warm water interchangeably. As Jockeys correctly said, you don't want to use hot water, but warm is quite acceptable to use. If you look at John Mottishaw's website you will find his instructions for cleaning a gunked/poorly functioning pen also includes soaking in a mixture of 1 part ammonia to 2 parts water. This is generally reserved for fairly gunked up pens, but can be used as part of a normal cleaning ritual. I personally prefer a weaker ammonia to water ratio.

There are of course certain makes and models of pens you cannot do this with, just as there are certain pens that cannot go into ultrasonic cleaners such as ones made from BCHR. However, from my experience (save extreme water temp) pen feed systems are pretty resillient. My primary desk fountain pen is a 1925 Waterman Ideal with a flex fine nib...writing with that puppy is pure heaven and I flush it with warm water every time I clean it (going on 4 years now).

As for the warranty being voided for using warm water, it piqued my curiosity enough that I sent an email off to Waterman customer service and will hopefully have a response shortly. I will post it here when they do respond.

I also strongly agree with Jockeys about heat causing the ink to spatter inside the cap. I have seen that happen many times to my own pens. It could also be that the nib is slightly loose, causing just enough gapping to allow an additional avenue for ink to expand/escape.

Warmest regards!

Charles

Thanks from me also. I occasionally had this problem with my fountain pens at school. (I don't have this problem any more because some b@$t@rd little s*&t of a student stole them)

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Originally Posted by welshwizard

I'm interested to know why anyone would carry a fountain pen these days.

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Now how do you suggest I write my signature?

As for the original question: heat may be a problem, but don't forget the best pens are made for being worn on your person (eg in a waist coat pocket) so they're bound to be able to stand at least body temperature. This goes for the rinsing as well: luke warm. In case of pressure issues: remember these are less of a concern in case of fully filled convertors/cartridges/fixed containers than when a lot of air is present (so if you plan to fly: make sure your fountain pen is either completely filled or empty!).

Usually however, there is either a problem with the nib (in build or use: even tiny hairs/paper filament trapped between the nib split can be culprits) or the problem can be solved using a different make of ink.


O, and risking to be superfluous: you do carry your pens in an upright position, don't you?

Some pens are worse than others for sweating in the cap. The cap (the inner cap, actually) seals against the section when closed so that the ink will not dry out in the feed. When the cap is opened, a slight vaccuum is created that pulls the ink off the feed and it splatters against the inside of the cap.

If the cap is opened or closed with the nib pointed up, gravity helps keep the ink in the feed. If the nib is down, gravity and vaccum act together to pull the ink from the feed. Opening and closing the cap nib-up solves most of these problems. Some pens (e.g., Lamy Safaris) sweat in the cap no matter what.

Body temperature will cause the air pressure to build in the reservoir, however this is unlikely if the pen is a cartridge / converter (c/c) filler. The reason is that there is an air space between the reservoir and the pen barrel, which insulates the ink quite well.

Try this -- Clean out your cap with water and several Q-Tips (it will take a while) and see if capping /uncapping with the nib up doesn't help. If this doesn't help, then send it to a good pen repair person.

Also, it is easy to check to see if the breather is plugged with a c/c filler. Fill an ear syringe with water (drug store for a dollar or two and they are great for flushing your nib / feed), fit the nozzle of the syringe on the fitting for the cartridge, and blow the water throuh the nib/feed. If the water squirts out of the breather hole on the nib, the breather is clear.

Hope this helps.

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Originally Posted by clehman67

As for the warranty being voided for using warm water, it piqued my curiosity enough that I sent an email off to Waterman customer service and will hopefully have a response shortly. I will post it here when they do respond.

Warmest regards!

Charles

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Greetings!

Here is the response I received from Waterman Corporate:

"Good Morning Mr. Lehman,
We recommend that you flush your pen with cool water. It would not void the warranty if you used warm water. If you use hot water, ammonia, or other solvents this would void the warranty. Waterman ink is water soluble so any dried ink in the nib and feed section will dissolve when you soak your nib section in cool water.

Kind Regards,

Lynn"

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Originally Posted by clehman67

Greetings!

Here is the response I received from Waterman Corporate:

"Good Morning Mr. Lehman,
We recommend that you flush your pen with cool water. It would not void the warranty if you used warm water. If you use hot water, ammonia, or other solvents this would void the warranty. Waterman ink is water soluble so any dried ink in the nib and feed section will dissolve when you soak your nib section in cool water.

Kind Regards,

Lynn"

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I never used a fountain pen but I make them now and then. I usually sell them with a few ink cartridges but now I am confused. Why would you want to use water soluble ink?

As far as the pen sweating, you may be having the following problem if you fill with a converter and dipping it into a bottle of ink.

If you look at the underside of the nib, you should see some black plastic with deep notches cut into it. See picture. The purpose of these notches is to catch ink that would ordinarily run out of the feed, inhibit and prevent it from leaking out of the pen. If you fill with a converter and don't thoroughly clean these notches after filling, the ink will get everywhere, including into your cap.

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Originally Posted by icedog

I never used a fountain pen but I make them now and then. I usually sell them with a few ink cartridges but now I am confused. Why would you want to use water soluble ink?

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Water is a great solvent. I believe you are thinking that water soluble means non-permanent and that is not the case. As noted earlier, Noodler's makes permanent "bullet-proof" ink and it is water soluble. Many permanent, water-proof inks for dip pens are water soluble, e.g., acrylic inks are water soluble, but water-proof once dry. Many fountain pen inks are very permanent once they dry.

Note: do not use dip pen inks in fountain pens. Fountain pen inks use a dye for color and the dye dissolves in the water, allowing clean passage through the feed channels. Dip pen inks use pigments for color and the pigments do not dissolve in the water, they are suspended. Pigments will quickly clog a fountain pen and probably require nib / feed / section disassembly and cleaning.

Hope this answers your question about water soluble ink.

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Originally Posted by majurey

Ha ha, yes, indeed, why would anyone carry a fountain pen these days?
:thinking:

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To write like how our founding fathers did?

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/revolut...dependence.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b3...alia/pinka.jpg

Well, I've tried many of your suggestions, and thanks to all for them. But nothing has worked. I rang the dealer in the UK who said it has to be sent to Paris (UK centre closed down some times ago). They said that if the pen was effectively NOS and hadn't been used in years (bought in 1994, not used once until this last Christmas), then most likely it needs fixing. :shrug:

It's a shame because it writes like a dream. Great flow, nib moves smoothly over the paper, no blots to deal with, no scratching, it is a beautiful pen to write with, but after carrying it (nib up in my jacket pocket) there is always ink inside the cap and over the grip of the pen.

Well--bummer that none of the home remedies have worked. But I'd think it would be worthwhile to send it to Paris and at least see what they have to say. Do you plan to?

~Rich

Yes! I'll let you guys know what the diagnosis and prognosis is in due course.

Good! I know too well that sometimes it's not economically feasible, but I like to see a fine object such as a good fountain pen brought back into shape and kept in service. I'll look forward to further developments.

~Rich

Just wanted to update those interested and to say thanks to everyone who made suggestions on how to deal with the problem.

I decided to send it to the S.T.Dupont dealer in the UK (Tor Imports Ltd). They called me immediately and said they were sending it to Paris to mend and would let me know the estimate in due course. About 4 weeks later I got another call to inform me that the repair work would be free of charge, but would take another 6 weeks.

Well, only a couple of weeks after that I got a package. Opened it up, and there inside was my pen. Next to it was the plunger that I had installed inside it, so I assumed there was no ink inside. I unscrewed the body and there was an ink cartridge, and not even the slightest hint of ink leakage. It had been sent airmail from Paris to Tor. And then again in the surface mail from Tor to me. Not a drop spilled. SO I guess that's theproblem fixed! :D

I'm so impressed with the service from S.T.Dupont. Here was a pen that was NOS, bought 13 years ago, never used. And they had no problem fixing it for free. Lifetime guarantee!

Anyway, the pen is great and I'm enjoying using it. Thanks to all who posted.

Cheers
M.