Ciabatta for gugi and anyone else interested.

Recently I had a customer request that I formulate a ciabatta recipe for them., They asked for an old world traditional ciabatta which excited me beyond belief! "A bakery who wants to do wonderful bread? Oh man!" were my thoughts, so I hopped right on it and came up with what I consider one of the best formulas I have ever created as far as crusty old world bread goes. Upon presenting the finished product to my customer he gave me a most quizzical look. after a moment of silence he said "I meant more like Jack In The Box ciabatta." :gaah::gaah::gaah: All that work for nothing...well, maybe not...

For all you bread aficionados and gugi too here is the formula (if you have never made bread before you may not want to start with this formula.):

This formula will be presented in a typical bakers formula which is based on percentages, flour being 100%. If this is confusing please PM me and I will give you actual weights based on your needs. Also, this should be mixed in a kitchen aide mixer but for the more adventurous among us I am certain that this can be done by hand if you have some understanding in this method.

Flour 100%
water 75%
salt 2%
fresh yeast 1.5% (if you are using active dry yeast use .75% yeast)

From the above formula take half the flour, 40% 0f the water, 1% of the salt and 1% of the yeast and combine in a mixer until some what developed ( about 3 to 6 minutes in first speed ).
Let this sit for 24 hours. Try not to get this mixture above 75 degrees F

After 24 hours this mixture should have doubled. Add remaining ingredients except salt. mix ingredients in 1st until they are absorbed and then let stand for 5 to 15 minutes. Add salt and mix in 2nd until close to development which will be approximately 6 to 10 minutes depending on flour quality and the amount of time dough was allowed to stand before adding salt. This mixture should also not be allowed to get beyond 75 degrees F. A little above this temp is okay but anything above 80 degrees F will result in an extremely yeasty tasting product.
Allow dough to raise 1 hour or until doubled. Punch down and allow to raise another hour which will be a little more than doubled. Punch down again and after 1 hour divide into rectangular pieces (use lots of flour or it will stick to everything, also, at this point be gentle with the dough as you want to keep the dough as aerated as possible. Being too rough will tend to toughen the dough and knock out the air. ). Place pieces on a floured cotton or linen cloth on a board or sheet pan and cover with plastic until ready for the oven (About 1/2 to1 hour). At this time oven should be pre heated to 440F - 465F and baked until done (usually 30 to 45 minutes). Use a pizza stone or a baking bell (cloche) for baking the ciabatta. I do not recommend a sheet pan or any metal pan, I use a piece of stone out of a commercial oven That I tore out once upon a time. Also for a thin and crispy crust a little steam will be needed. What I do is fill a spray bottle with water and spray the dough just before it goes in the oven also I put a small metal bowl in the oven while it heats and just after I slip the dough unto the hot stone I pour water into the hot metal bowl which creates steam.
The easiest way to get the raw dough unto the hot stone in the oven will be with a piece of very rigid cardboard or very thin piece of wood pre-cut to the desired size. Flip the well floured dough on to the board and with a quick pulling of the board over the desired spot on the stone you should end up with the dough on the stone where you want it. (this may take some practice)

Again, if you are interested in this bread but my formula confuses you please PM me as I will be glad to help you.

By the way, bread of any sort is not that difficult once you understand the role of each ingredient. If you need any assistance at all I am willing to help. Just PM me with whatever question you have no matter how silly you think the question is.

Now, that looks good. I wish my screen had a smell function. :)

DROOL!!!!

I love making bread, I just have to get in the mood for it :p

Didn't know you were a bread enthusiast, Mark! I love bread baking-- I'll give this formula a try sometime soon; it looks very good!

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Originally Posted by BKratchmer

Didn't know you were a bread enthusiast, Mark! I love bread baking-- I'll give this formula a try sometime soon; it looks very good!

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I was a professional baker for 20 years before I started fixing bakery equipment. I also did and occasionally still do consulting for bakeries.

I've been baking for years. I'll have to try it. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by JMS

Flour 100%
water 75%
salt 2%
fresh yeast 1.5% (if you are using active dry yeast use .75% yeast)

From the above formula take half the flour, 40% 0f the water, 1% of the salt and 1% of the yeast.

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In case this is confusing let me make it easier:
If you are using 100 lbs of flour you will use 75 lbs of water 2 lbs of salt and 1.5 lbs of fresh yeast. this is the total amount of ingredients. from this, to make the initial dough (sponge, starter, biga or whatever you prefer to call it) you will use 50 lbs of the flour, 30 lbs of the water, 0.2 lbs of the salt and 0.15 lbs of the fresh yeast

As you can see, with percentages it is easy to adjust your formula to any size you like from a thousand lbs of flour to 1 lb of flour depending on your needs. At home I use 5 lbs of flour total.

I bet this is good with butter and honey!

100 lbs of flower Dats Alota bread!

That dos look fantastic and forget the smell function on the screen I want a taste function.

aaah man! I juzt buusteed mi lcd try ing too reachj foir a slixe of tjat bresad.

I realize now that in the formula in the initial post I never spoke of what type of flour to use. I use an unbleached white flour that typically has between 11 to 12% protein. Protein is important as it is an indication as to how a dough will develop and whether the resulting product will be more to the tender or tough side. There are 4 different proteins in flour (possibly more) but the proteins we as bread makers are concerned with are known as gliadin and glutenin. These together comprise most of the protein you find in wheat. when you add water to flour and begin to mix and knead these two ingredients you are developing these two proteins (gliadin to a lesser degree) into what most professional bakers call gluten. In developing the gluten you are creating the structure which holds the gases that the yeast produces by consuming the sugars and starches. This is what allows the product its airy structure. Think of the gluten as a stretchy balloon and the gases and alcohol that the yeast produces as the air that fills the balloon (by the way, the very small amount of alcohol that the yeast produces in the short period of fermentation is an important component to the aroma and flavor of the product. It also adds in a small way to the products shelf life).
To my way of thinking the best bread flours are a combination of hard and soft wheat to produce a flour of about 11 to 12 %(hard wheat generally equals higher protein and vice versa). Closer to 11% being optimal. If you are looking for bread with more volume but dont mind a little toughness you might go 12 to 13% protein.
Here is a list of flours and their typical levels of protein:

Pastry flour....6 to 8% Will result in tender products but not good for bread.

cake flour......7 to10% best for cakes but if handled properly could be used for pastries. This flour is generally bleached. Also not the best for bread.

All purpose ...9 to 11%. This is a compromise between all the flours and tends to result in a mediocre product for all but the most knowledgeable of bakers.

Bread flour...10 to 12%. This is best for bread as it provides the proper amount of protein so that the bread will get the proper development and rise out of the bread without becoming to tough. Usually unbleached.

Hi- gluten flour..12 to 14% while many bakeries use this flour to make for a larger, more appealing looking loaf of bread the resulting product is generally too tough to eat...many of us eat it anyways. This flour is best as an additive to a weaker flour that you wish to make stronger (more protein).

whole wheat...The protein varies considerably as it depends on weather we are dealing with a hard or a soft wheat or a combination but I have found that most reputable sources are in the 12 to 14% range but due to the fact that the flour is whole the products from this are generally not tough. this flour can replace white flour in any bread recipe from 10 to 50% of the total flour. If you are an advanced baker you can use 100% whole wheat but the resulting dough will require close attention.

I hope this helps

Thanks for the recipe JMS, I can't wait to try this out. I've been working a lot with sourdough lately (simple rounds, lots of pizza dough, bagels), but haven't been able to find a good ciabatta recipe. One thing that I'm a little unclear on is what do you mean by fresh yeast. I have a good culture of sourdough starter, but I don't know if that is what you meant by fresh yeast. I can't wait to give this a shot. Looks like it's absolutely delicious.

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Originally Posted by Cartographer

Thanks for the recipe JMS, I can't wait to try this out. I've been working a lot with sourdough lately (simple rounds, lots of pizza dough, bagels), but haven't been able to find a good ciabatta recipe. One thing that I'm a little unclear on is what do you mean by fresh yeast. I have a good culture of sourdough starter, but I don't know if that is what you meant by fresh yeast. I can't wait to give this a shot. Looks like it's absolutely delicious.

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Active dry yeast is the dried version of fresh bakers yeast or what used to be called cake yeast. Your sourdough culture is a different animal than what I am talking about.

In the original post I wrote this:

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Flour 100%
water 75%
salt 2%
fresh yeast 1.5% (if you are using active dry yeast use .75% yeast)

From the above formula take half the flour, 40% 0f the water, 1% of the salt and 1% of the yeast and combine in a mixer until some what developed ( about 3 to 6 minutes in first speed ).
Let this sit for 24 hours. Try not to get this mixture above 75 degrees F

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But should read like this:

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Flour 100%
water 75%
salt 2%
fresh yeast 1.5% (if you are using active dry yeast use .75% yeast)

From the above formula take half the flour, 40% 0f the water, 5% of the salt and 5% of the yeast and combine in a mixer until some what developed ( about 3 to 6 minutes in first speed ).
Let this sit for 24 hours. Try not to get this mixture above 75 degrees F

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In other words, if you are using 10 lbs total yeast you will use 5 % of that total for the starter or .5 lb

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Originally Posted by Otto

Now, that looks good. I wish my screen had a smell function. :)

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Me too!

Looks good, Mark! I'm guessing 100% yeast and 50% water would be 2 parts yeast and one part water. Is that right? I'm too lazy to pm :p (edit: nevermind, I just read post #8)

I wonder who in my family I can get to try this

Thank you for your formula. I am going to try it today.

Could you explain one thing - you say 'mix until the dough is close to development'. I imagine that a profession baker would know exactly what this means but could you try to explain to an amateur how one can recognise this point?

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Originally Posted by Christopher

Thank you for your formula. I am going to try it today.

Could you explain one thing - you say 'mix until the dough is close to development'. I imagine that a profession baker would know exactly what this means but could you try to explain to an amateur how one can recognise this point?

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Ill do my best. Most dough is considered fully developed when you can stretch a chunk of dough into a thin membrane to the point that you can see light through it without tearing the dough. It is fairly difficult to fully develop a dough that is above 70% hydration so we do some "tricks" to help us. one "trick" is the stiff starter (Biga) we let develop for 24 hours in this formula. Another trick is to allow the dough to rest for 5 to 15 minutes after 1st speed and not adding the salt till 2nd speed. One more trick you will note in this formula is that I punch it down or fold it if you prefer, not once but twice. Each of these "tricks" have their own function in the process of making bread and they also have something in common which is to allow the flour to completely absorb the water so that the flour is fully hydrated and also allows better development as you work through the process.
What I mean by close to development is that point where the product has stretch but still can not be stretched into a thin membrane. You should find at the end of the process just at the time you are cutting your final pieces that the dough can be stretched to the thin membrane state.

I hope this helps

That lovely one celled creature that is responsible for such potables as wine and beer and without which we could not enjoy many hard spirits.
This humble little work horse is also responsible for the light airy texture of bread and the varied flavors one finds in old world breads. We as bakers are not responsible for the final product as much as we are caretakers for the product that the yeast is creating. we do make final decisions as to when is the best time to take and shape a dough or let have a little more time but the yeast is ultimately responsible for that final delight known as bread.

Okay, before I go any further let me introduce the only four ingredients needed to make great bread:

Flour: mixed with water it provides the needed food for the yeast and structure for the final product.

Water: see above. Additionally water does add to the flavor on a very small level and of course without water certain enzymatic activities can not take place nor can the yeast work correctly for our purposes

Salt: Salt adds or enhances the flavor of bread but in bread its more important roles are to control the yeast. To keep it in check so to speak. it also allows for a more appealing color and sheen to the final crust. (washes such as egg or the introduction of steam into the baking chamber greatly enhance this final quality)

And finally yeast:


The specific strain most bakers use are known as Saccharomyces cerevisiae. Yeast needs a moist atmosphere to be able to do its work but it does not require oxygen although it performs better with oxygen. In a dough the oxygen is introduced into the dough through the mixing process.
Depending on your process yeast can bring about a sweetness to the final product. it can present a buttery or sour quality when working alongside lactobacilli. So many variations on the flavor of the final product can be had just by changing the process that you use.
Yeast basically uses the starches in the dough and breaks them down to usable sugars from these sugars which it feeds on it produces alcohol and carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide gets trapped in the gluten structure of the dough creating its airy light quality and the alcohol contributes to the final flavor and the heavenly aroma of the finished product as it comes out of the oven.
Yeast reproduces by budding. It thrives best in about 75 degrees F and with the exception of some specialty yeasts it dies above 120 degrees F Yeast slows in activity considerably at 70 degrees F and goes dormant at about 40 degrees F. This will of course vary depending on yeast quality and strain.

As A side note If your bread tastes and smells really yeasty it is likely that your dough was above 80 degrees F

I should add that most modern breads do not rely on yeast and process to be the final arbiter on flavor of the bread, instead they depend on ingredients for flavor and certain additives for dough workability. The ability of bakers to be the caretakers of their products tend to be removed by modern methods. If I haven't made it plain I do prefer the old methods of bread production.

Note: This is not to say that old world methods did not require additives, they found their additives through more natural methods that I intend on talking about in future posts.

I tried your formula and produced an excellent result and just wanted to thank you for all your information and for your expertise.

I just wondered (as the ciabatta formula was so good) if you have a favourite formula for French or Italian Croissants that you would share with us?

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Originally Posted by Christopher

I tried your formula and produced an excellent result and just wanted to thank you for all your information and for your expertise.

I just wondered if you have a favourite formula for French or Italian Croissants that you would share with us?

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Sorry. No croissant formulas up my sleeve. I am certain that I could come up with a formula from one of my many baking books but I dont have a formula that I devised myself as I have never been a big fan of them. On the other hand I have several French baguette formulas that I can put my name to, but before I published them here I would have to do a little adjusting for the home baker and run a few tests.

Okay. These are a few pictures from a bakery that I used to be in charge of as head baker.
The first picture is the side of one of there delivery trucks with their logo.
second and third pictures show a fully mature ciabatta dough ready to shape for the final proof before going into the oven and how a fully mature ciabatta dough looks as it is gently stretched to check for proper gluten development.
Fourth and fifth pictures are the final shapes proofing on floured linen (Known as "couche" and pronounced like "douche") these are various doughs.
the last few pictures show the final loaves ready for scoring and loading into the oven.

These pictures are of the finished products at Sadie Rose Baking Co:

I hope you are all enjoying this thread and learning a little about bread, also, I know for a beginner in bread making it may seem complicated but its quite simple really. Once you make bread a few times you will realize how simple it all is so don't let any of the information I provided. Scare you off.

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Originally Posted by JMS

I hope you are all enjoying this thread and learning a little about bread, also, I know for a beginner in bread making it may seem complicated but its quite simple really. Once you make bread a few times you will realize how simple it all is so don't let any of the information I provided. Scare you off.

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I am enjoying the thread....
So what razor do recommend for making the surface
slices on the loaf before baking.

Should it be sharpened on a jNat or a Belgian coti to
be optimum....

Or has the sanitary police mandated a single use
window scraping single edge razor blade.