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I was thinking of forging a few razors soon from some old files. I don't have a grinder set up for hollow grinding and I've never attempted it myself. Is there anybody on here who grinds razors that I could ship some blanks to? If so, who are they and what'll they charge? :)
I am no blademaker, but I think there is more to it. I think the standard routine is to anneal the file before grinding the rough shape out. Then, some of the hollow grinding comes in. A heat treating process and final work is done.
Do some searches in the search box at top of forum on the right. You will come up with tons of answers!
Good luck! :gl:
I've talked to a few guys who made some killer looking file razors and sadly they've been disappointed with the edge that they take. Maybe someone here will prove me wrong but from what I understand, it's not worth the time and money.
Lmk if you discover a file that looks/shaves bad@zz!
I feel lots of them do shave well, if properly executed. It seems a file is pretty hard on the scale, but crumbles at the edge most of the time. I also have heard really old files work better. They make some killer-looking blades from them, with the 'file' jimps and all. I think it would be cool to do a file razor with Charlie Lewis, so he could hammer in some Great stuff on the edge! WHY, though? Unless you want the 'file' look!Quote:
Originally Posted by wyobarbershop
Some files can make good razors. There are lots of variables, type of steel, heat treat, grind, that all go into the equation.
For me grinding and heat treat are 90% of making a razor. Grinding is where I have to think hard and hold my tongue right to do a good job.
Charlie
I would assume that since the person would have to grind, heat treat, then grind some more that they'd be the ones heat treating it as well as grinding it. I just want to find someone willing to do this for me and get a price quote before I get the project started. I could go with a steel other than that of a file, but I buy old files, nicholson and heller brothers especially, every chance I get, so I have quite a few of them.
I wish I had an answer on where are who to go to. Maybe reach out and pm some of the makers on this forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by neg
Charlie
Like Charlie said above, grinding and HT are the biggest parts of making a usable razor. Files can make good razors, but because the edge is exact, your HT and geometry has to be dead on and this is especially true with old files.
After forging, the blank needs to be properly annealed, rough ground, extensively stress relieved, hardened, tempered, and final ground. All this is assuming that your geometry was correct enough in the forged blank that a finished razor could be made. At this point, you're basically commissioning a razor from a blank you made.
All that said, I think it would be easiest if you got a bench grinder (which would be less than what you'd pay for all the work mentioned above) and did your own hollow grinding. Grant (baldy) made an amazing file razor with a charcoal forge and a bench grinder.
If this still hasn't persuaded you, pm me and maybe we can come up with something:)
For razors, O-1 and 1095 steel is just too dang cheap. Look here, this is how I made my first razors:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/forge...ake-razor.html
http://straightrazorpalace.com/forge...hip-razor.html
Amen about the steel.
For the price that this is going to cost, there is absolutely no point in using unknown file steel instgead of 5 to 10 $ worth of O1. Also it is hard to ask someone to do just the grinding, because whether it can be ground successfully depends on the geometry that you started with.
Well, it doesn't look like anybody's going to take me up on this, but for what it's worth, here's the razor I ended up forging. It's from an old nicholson file, and even if nobody wants to help me out with it, it was still good practice.
You did good to that point, why didn't you go ahead and hollow it out on your own?
What's the width and thickness of the blade?
It isn't that nobody wants to help you out, but rather you haven't made your proposition clear enough. Why do you want a file razor - just because you have a lot of files you've bought? If you are trying to save money what you are looking for is commissioning a custom made razor where you supply the steel.Quote:
Originally Posted by neg
It will cost you more than simply commissioning a razor because you are asking the person to use a completely unknown material with initial properties that are unsuitable for the work (it's already hardened steel) - it takes more expertise and more work to make a razor out of such material than starting with something with well known properties.
Would you be willing to pay the much higher price? Are you willing to accept the chances that your file may not make a good razor, so you'd essentially spend all that money for a decoration?
If so contact the various custom makers to discuss your project - some do not do such things, somebody may be interested but you need to be the one who is proactive. Those who are good tend to have plenty of work than to pursue somebody else's vague project.
I have 2 knives that were made from files. One a non professionally made old kitchen knife. Primitive but nice. The other is a "patch knife" that I used when I shot black powder. Also very nice. While a file servers well with these two, I'm not sure how if they'd made good razors.
File may be good steel. Or not. For knives it is less important because knives have enough mass that things like microchipping don't matter as much. In any case, the HT properties are unknown, making the job harder for the one doing the HT and grinding. I would also be hesitant to grind something that was not made by me (or someone who understands razors at the same level). The reason being that successfully grinding a razor depends a lot on the initial geometry. You can't just make something that looks like a razor and then expect that it is possible to grind it successfully as a straight razor.
The Grinding and HT are the most critical parts of the process, and they rely on the geometry being right.
I was once told by a golfer: driving is for show, putting is for dough. It's not hitting the ball the first couple hundred yards that makes the difference between a good golfer and a bad one. It's the last couple dozen. That is all the hard work, and similarly it's also the most time intensive part, the most error prone, and the most expensive.
If I were to grind someone else's razor, I'd have to make a price based on the fact that the geometry is most likely not right to begin with, that the HT would be more difficult, and that I'm doing most of the actual work. That would be about as expensive for the customer as making a custom from scratch. I know people sometimes think this would be an efficient approach, but it really isn't. You can't cut the price of a custom razor in half by doing the first half of the work yourself.
Btw, I applaud everyone who is going to try this himself, and provide help where I can. The one thing that is important is to recognize it's going to take time and effort and you learn by fixing mistakes. I know I still do.
My last razor was from a file, the edge is exquisitely keen and smooth as good as any razor I own. Refining the grain is crucial for this. Good control on ht, 3 normalising thermal cycles and I tend to triple quench with mystery steel. Tempering makes a big difference also, I prefer mine a tad hard, its not a law though. I like to get a nice thin bevel when I hollow grind, it makes life on the stone a bunch easier. If anyone would like to try this razor out I'm happy to send it to them.
Attachment 167224Attachment 167225
What quenchant did you use Deckard? That is a good looking razor, I like the slight hamon.
I used Exol 603 which is an accelerated quenchant available in the uk. I tend to quench fast when using file steel to edge my bets. I would use brine otherwise for any mystery steel.Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter74743
You can also get that effect by just quenching that part of the razor and not sticking it in the quenchant completely.
Would not recommend it though. Warpage a real possibility. Hamons are a nice surprise but no big deal if they don't happen. If they do happen makes me think the steel was shallow hardening, so good job quenched fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Wow, what a great looking razor I really like the industrial look of it. Makes me want to build a forge just to make one of them :)
That razor looks like it would shave just nicely. Has it been honed?
On something as thick as a razor, the odds of warping are really low if it is annealed beforehand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckard
Yes it's honed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbied
I'd love to have a shave with it. I'm still debating whether to add a piece of steel in my next order to make a razor, so far it's just been knives. It's the starting dimensions stopping me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckard
