A Question or two about tongs & hand tools for the forgers

G'day all,
I am enquiring from the lads that forge,
form your experience what is your preferred type & size tongs for holding your materials while forging
for example V tongs, Bolt Tongs or flat type tongs or another type completely
then we have 1/4", 3/8" or other sizes to consider etc

I would rather buy 1 or 2 most useful type tongs than some that are just not right

Also any advise on any other hand tools you have found to be either essential or make life a lot easier?

For hammers I have a mallet & a Ball peen,
I have a 90° Cross peen lined up or would a diagonal cross peen hammer be better?

any advice is greatly appreciated
thanks in advance
Dion

One pair for holding 1/4" bar stock or a pair with flat type jaws. Another to hold the stock when your making tongs :<0) I have 4 pairs and 2 feel good. And the thing about tongs is they are made for each type of stock you heat and hit. Vice grips and channel locks are nice to have on hand.

There is no such thing as too many hammers. You'll like 1 for bashing this way and 1 for the other.
Once you get started you will know what more you will want. Right now I want a nice rounding hammer.

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Originally Posted by 10Pups

Vice grips and channel locks are nice to have on hand.

There is no such thing as too many hammers. You'll like 1 for bashing this way and 1 for the other.
Once you get started you will know what more you will want. Right now I want a nice rounding hammer.

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I have a set of "tongs" that are a set of vice grips I welded a piece of sucker rod to the adjustment bolt...handy boogers!

Amen on the hammers! Never too many...

Sorry Dion, but if you're wandering down the lane shopping for tongs, (I will kindly leave out hammers...) you're screwed. It's the worst sort of acquisition disorder for a smith.

To start, look to tongs in this style: Blacksmith Supply

They hold all sorts of things the long way, side ways, any ways. You want a tool that you can manipulate material. The kind of tongs you Will have depend entirely on the size and shape of stock you plan to work. They are like chips, you can't just have one.

My best advice is to learn to make your own. Tongs don't have to look pretty, they just have to work. As you master the craft, your tongs will take on the look of an art form on their own and that's the best reflection on a smith. The ability to make one's own tools is a serious addition to your credibility. In fact, you'll spend 90% of your time making or adjusting tools just to do the work. Look at pictures of an old smith's shop. The walls are covered in tools, not to mention filling all available space under benches and under foot. Here's a little teaser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H4h79Sflik

As to your question about peen hammers...it depends on which end you are using. The pein is for drawing out metal and the shape or angle of the pein is both ergonomic for the smith and helps determine the direction of movement in the steel. You are going to want many different types before this is done. By itself it does nothing to the steel when you're using the more-or-less flat end of the hammer. I'll leave you to look up all the different types of hammers. This also says nothing about the weights they come in. My largest is 55 Kg but I've used up to 250 Kg hammers enough to get good with them. Bigger tools satisfy much better.

You might want to invest in a tool like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-sGbtYbKxo

Also a hold down tool, for when you need three arms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTFCiilGlpo (woodworkers love these things, you'll never run out of customers...)

The disease of steel is terrible, all consuming, and there is no known cure when it takes hold of a susceptible individual.

thanks for the great info Mike
those tongs look like the U Jaws I have been considering
great vids too

Damn I miss my Granddad & wish he was still around as he was a Blacksmith for life (50+ years)
his shed had walls of tongs & tools he made & over the years
I remember him telling me that he often spent more time making the tools & tongs etc. to do a job than the job took to make

he is the reason why I did my Trade as a Boilermaker Welder and cos I like bashing sh!t with hammers LOL

Alas I was too young when he passed to appreciate or get any of it.

Whew, I'm glad I can blame your Granddad for starting you down this path. Otherwise, I have had about 0.02 seconds worth of guilt tempting you with the black craft....;)

I was waiting for someone like Mr. Blue to tell you the truth. You need one of everything and three or four of some. :rofl2:

yeh no blame for sure mate
Metal craft with sights & smells of glowing near molten steel being hit with hammers runs deep in my veins & psyche

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Originally Posted by Substance

yeh no blame for sure mate
Metal craft with sights & smells of glowing near molten steel being hit with hammers runs deep in my veins & psyche

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Don't forget the smells of burning hair, skin and clothing. :rock:

Never forget that, it is scared into my skin, head, all my senses really

Well, heat and smoke...that's about the time when the real work begins...and you find you can't drop anything to get deal with it. Strike while the iron's hot boys! Get her done, you can heal up later. LOL

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Originally Posted by JDM61

Don't forget the smells of burning hair, skin and clothing. :rock:

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I still have the shape of the beak of my general purpose tongs burned into the soft part of my underarm :)
I'd laid them on my anvil after taking somethign out of the fire. Then I squatted down to pick up some things and accidentally touched my bare arm for just a second.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I still have the shape of the beak of my general purpose tongs burned into the soft part of my underarm :)
I'd laid them on my anvil after taking somethign out of the fire. Then I squatted down to pick up some things and accidentally touched my bare arm for just a second.

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Ouch

There are reasons I have never had any desire to work with red hot steel.

Wayne Saunders is a new member here. He will make you a set of tongs that will hold a variety of sizes bar stock. They're a brilliant set of tongs, mine are on order. He will also do rounding hammers, which I have two of. Whether you buy his or from someone else they are the business!! I primarily used ball peins but almost exclusively use the rounding hammers now. A diagonal cross pein is a must also. I'm not a fan of the 90 degree or straight up and down cross peins, too much wrist re-alignment to be comfortable in my opinion.
Ultimately just give whatever you can a go and see what works for you.
Cheers
Matt

Mike,
Who was that fellow who you sent me to several years ago that is from overseas? His tongs are great!

Edit: This guy makes good tongs: GS Blacksmith Tongs

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

Mike,
Who was that fellow who you sent me to several years ago that is from overseas? His tongs are great!

Edit: This guy makes good tongs: GS Blacksmith Tongs

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The link you post is for Grant Sarver RIP. A great tool making smith and I give him my best recommendation too.

The link I posted was: Blacksmith Supply

Known as Tom Tongs, from Tom Clark RIP too, dang all the good ones are dying off. The Tom Tongs are pretty much made in Pakistan, or were and are uniformly stout, useful, high quality tools.

As we saw with the SayMak hammers and those tongs, anyone who bothered to take Mr. Clark's advice re their products generally improved their brand a fair bit.

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Originally Posted by Mike Blue

The link you post is for Grant Sarver RIP. A great tool making smith and I give him my best recommendation too.

The link I posted was: Blacksmith Supply

Known as Tom Tongs, from Tom Clark RIP too, dang all the good ones are dying off. The Tom Tongs are pretty much made in Pakistan, or were and are uniformly stout, useful, high quality tools.

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I made a pair of tongs at the anvil in 1976. Granted I didn't know what I was doing, but it was a huge amount of work. I'm planning on making a pair with 20th century tools and material, stock sizes and arc welding. Razors are small enough that I've been getting by with vice grips, but just barely.

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Originally Posted by bluesman7

I made a pair of tongs at the anvil in 1976. Granted I didn't know what I was doing, but it was a huge amount of work. I'm planning on making a pair with 20th century tools and material, stock sizes and arc welding. Razors are small enough that I've been getting by with vice grips, but just barely.

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I generally work with 3 feet lengths of stock, working the end into a razor and then cutting it off with a hardy. The is easier than using tongs.
When the bar gets too short, I weld on a length of mild steel for the same purpose.
Only now that I am working with short lengths of Damascus have I started to make special purpose tongs.

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Originally Posted by JDM61

Don't forget the smells of burning hair, skin and clothing. :rock:

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Just so Bruno doesn't feel alone re his tong brand... :)

Remember that everything is hot, even if you're pretty sure it isn't, until you verify that it is cool. I did some redecorating on my finger the other day by absent-mindedly brushing it against a piece of stock I had laid aside to cool. It's probably also a good idea not to forge when you are feeling ill, are really tired, or (as was the case when I did this) a combination of both.

Attachment 202036


EDIT: forgot my .02 re your questions.

Tongs: v-bits are very helpful for holding round or square stock (gripped by the corners). You can also file/chisel in a shallow v into flat tongs too for similar effect. Bolt tongs as someone linked above can be very handy, as can wolf-jaws. These are the only tongs I have bought so far and they have proven to be very very versatile. Otherwise I am going to make my own from here on in. Bruno's advice re using longer stock is excellent and I do the same when possible.

Hammers: I have a 32oz ball pein and 3lb cross pein that I picked up very cheap from Harbor Freight when I ventured down to Unitedstatesia last year. And I splurged a bit on a 2000g Peddinghaus nordic-style cross pein. The one think I feel I lack is a true rounding hammer, so that's a project on the backburner for some pieces of 4140 that I have. :) I'm a big guy and I find the 2000g to be tiring after a while, so IMHO most folks should probably start with hammers in the 2.5-3lb range and see how that goes. Don't get me wrong - there are times when that extra weight is very welcome, but the fact that most of the time I reach for the cheaper 3lb hammer tells me something.

I use a 3 pound hammer at the moment. Thinking of upgrading to 2000 g.
The trick is to hold the hammer close to the head so you don't have to use a lot of underarm torque to lift it up.
It is a lot less tiring, and a lot less damaging to the elbow.
With short handles, you use less torque on the underarm, and you can keep hammering for a lot longer because you use the bigger muscles.

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Originally Posted by bluesman7

I'm planning on making a pair with 20th century tools and material, stock sizes and arc welding.

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Here are my quick and dirty tongs.
Attachment 202629
Not much to look at, but fully functional.

Nice! I'll try and pics of mine tomorrow. I just forged a pair of U box tongs for holding the Damascus stock from Howard. Normally, I'd weld on a piece of mild steel, but the Damascus is in short lengths, and I don't want to lose the inch of material I'd otherwise lose. Mine are uglier than your :p though I am proud of the fact that the U is folded and forge welded to the tongs.

If they work as I hope they will, I'll make a couple for different stock thicknesses so that I no longer have to weld sacrificial steel to the short ends of stock any more. That would save time, and time is money.

These are the ones I made last week, and put together today. I used to tag on rebar or mild steel, but the Howard Clark Damascus I got is special enough that I don't wat to waste an inch. The tongs are made from mild steel.
1) ned it L shaped.
2) flatten the short bit of the L
3) fold the short bit over itself and back around, so that you get a T
4) hammer the short bit flat, flux it, and then forgeweld at welding heat. (heat and hammer a couple of times for a good weld)
5) fold the ends of the T into a U shaped box.

It is ugly, but gets the job done. The stock is rock solid and doesn't budge a hair.
First pic is empty, second pic is holing half of the damascus I worked with today. The other half was forged to a razor blank, and currently annealing

Attachment 203160

Attachment 203161

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Originally Posted by Bruno

These are the ones I made last week, and put together today. I used to tag on rebar or mild steel, but the Howard Clark Damascus I got is special enough that I don't wat to waste an inch. The tongs are made from mild steel.

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I'm taking a break from my first attempt at making a pattern welded billet. Considering the work going into it, I think I'll be making some custom tongs for that as well if it turns out. Not wanting to waste an inch is an understatement! Thanks for the pics.

[QUOTE=Bruno;1504805]It is ugly, but gets the job done. The stock is rock solid and doesn't budge a hair.
First pic is empty, second pic is holing half of the damascus I worked with today. The other half was forged to a razor blank, and currently annealing/QUOTE]

Function over form is the main thing

Funny story.In my local we have alot of barn and farm sales,Bought a huge anvil (maybe 150 lbs).
Got it loaded in the back of my truck and sold it 10 mins later to a guy for 3 times what I paid for it:)
In the barn was also a wood box full of tongs and hammers,I paid no attn. to them,I guess I should have:(