Hey guys, I have a chance to buy these steel rounds. The one in the front left is 4140 and about 10" diameter.
Is the round shape practical?
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Hey guys, I have a chance to buy these steel rounds. The one in the front left is 4140 and about 10" diameter.
Is the round shape practical?
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I think there are 2 more pieces of 4140, they have rust on them. The front right of the above pic and on the next pic from the back. The others are 420 and 410 SS.
Attachment 212020
That would not be my choice for a shape. Having a straight but rounded edge, like Charlie's post anvil, is very useful IMO. If you put that edge on the side of that 10" round you would not have much mass to hit against. Turned up on edge with a flattened face might be OK, but it just seems like the wrong shape to me.
Anvil shaped is a really good shape for an anvil.:p
I have been doing some research and it looks like I could get a 7" square out of the big 10" 4140 round. Now to find a shop that would cut that 3-4" thick round. Or just have 2 sides, 7" long cut and make the ends 4" with a curve in between.
Or cut the top a little squarish or rectangular and leave some of that nice mass at the base. The problem is that it all depends.
A shop selling rounds should have some squares lying about. Say 4-6 inches maybe ten inches long for a little weight.
You have a really talent for finding stuff Randy.
I think that would work fine.
I looked up the specs on the 420 & 410 stainless steels. They are not suitable for an anvil. The get to HRC 52 but soften rapidly at temps above 800 F. They are good for molds in the plastics industry and for cutlery & straight edges types of tools.
I think the 4140 would work well. They are large enough that the rounding is not an issue. Most of what I do is on the tandle and the corner of the plate. You'd need to add a hardy or 2 for hammering in notches or bending things.
I bet it rings a lot less than an anvil with horns.
I checked the specs of the 4140, the density is .28 lbs per cubic inch.
The number of cubic inch is......
Surface area = 10" x 10" = 100", 100" x .785 = 78.5" square inches
78.5" x 4" ( thickness) = 314 cubic inches
314 x .28 lbs per cubic inch = 87.92 lbs for the front 10" piece of labeled 4140
If I had that cut into a 7" square that would reduce it to ....
7" x 7" = 49 square inches
49 x 4" thickness = 196 cubic inches
196 x .28 lb per cubic inch = 55 lbs weight for the 7 x 7 x 4 block
Then if I stood it up on edge it would be 4' wide x 7" long and 7" high, then I could construct a post anvil from that ..................................... That would give me 4 surfaces to use ( eventually) as an anvil face plus the 2 side surfaces of 7 x 7
Just playing with ideas......:)
Is the 4140 Annealed? If not will be more difficult to cut.
J.M.H.O.
I am thinking of something similar, but rather than a wide, flat shape, I'll try to use part of a 3" round axle (which I think is 4140) welded to the top of a piece of 3.5" round stock about 19 inches long (was a counterweight for something). I'll try to replicate Charlie's anvil base with the round tube filled with gravel, and three forged steel wedges as tightening pins.
That sounds good. I like Charlie's anvil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atchbo
should work well I think, my post anvil is Ø4"x about 14" 4140 Quenched & tempered, very much based on Charlie's post design
Got'em ! :)
This was an auction and it just ended.
Was the auction the full pallet, or individual pieces?Quote:
Originally Posted by randydance062449
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesman7
Full pallet.
He also had a talent for having me load and unload the stuff!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Blue
:)
Are beer or other alcoholic beverages involved?Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
:)
No, but his mother gave some very good banana bread so we're good!
All you need is a flat as big, or slightly bigger than the hammer head. So if you have a flat milled on an edge that size you will be fine. Even annealed it will work since it will still be harder than red hot steel, and razors do not require a striker swinging a 10# sledge to shape them.
For a hardy holder, just use a vise, or a separate square tube socket welded to a plate to hold them.
A note on the stainless you have. A post above mentioned they lose hardness above 800° , a razor would never heat it up enough to loose hardness since it is simply too small of a mass to do so.
The large radiuses can make some nice spring tools to rough in the hollow grinds.
Do you have access to any machine tools?
[QUOTE=BIGGUNDOCTOR;1568472
The large radiuses can make some nice spring tools to rough in the hollow grinds.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your post! :) The only part that I cannot wrap my head around is the above. If you can explain what "large radius" you are referring to, ....the side of the rounds? I can envision turning the rounds on their side and using that as a convex shaped anvil ?
Sorry, I do not understand "spring tools" in this context. :shrug:
Here's the one I use, it works well, within it's it's limitations. The anvil steel is en19.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/386/1...748846e6_z.jpg
I think he means that if you cut off slices at a tangent and held two opposing one another, you could make a gentle fuller similar to the hollow radius of a razor.
Sorry about that, I forgot that this was not my blacksmithing forum.
Atchbo is correct, the two pieces are held together, and apart by a leaf spring that is doubled back on itself. That way all you do is place your item between them, and hit the top part so that it comes down onto the stationary lower pert. Google spring fuller to see what I am talking about, there are tons of styles of these tools.
I am just thinking that by doing this you can rough in the hollow grind to save some time, and also forge the grain structure closer to the finished item.
I borrowed this tool from a friend to try out.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGUNDOCTOR
Attachment 219729
Attachment 219730
A more sophisticated approach to the same idea, but with small radius fullers. While it did produce a beautiful groove to start the hollow it was not worth the effort in the end IMO.
Attachment 219731
Going from triangle to hollow does not take a lot of time and allows you to make some alignment adjustments.
You also have to be much more careful in aligning things if you hollow it by hammering
Someone here did the test and you win some time grinding the hollows but lose it by requiring more care during forging. The pre ht hollow grinding is not where a lot of time is to be won.
an experienced smith might come out ahead but the gain would be fairly low
+7.. That was my experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Still, it looks like a fun toy!
Victor, did you try more than just hollowing with it? I wonder if you could draw out the steel in the direction of the edge with a series of properly placed whacks?
Also, do you know what its original intended purpose was? It seems that if it is mounted on a standard height work bench that it would be at an awkward height to hit with a hammer--which is how I assume that it is used.
I just had it on my truck for pictures. The tang hanging down goes into the hardy hole in an anvil. I did not try more than the groove, but the tool is designed to be used with a number of different fullers of different shapes. I made the fullers shown and then returned the tool with them. My friend thought that he got a pretty good deal on the loan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
Thanks you guys, that is very helpful. :)
Victor, I believe that tool is called a smithin magician or is close to it. I did look on YouTube and found some videos on spring swage's. From that I can envision what a spring fuller would look like and do.
Once I saw those vid's my imagination kicked in and I started thinking about hydraulic press with a fuller with an 8" radii and then I spoke with Mike Blue and he gave me some great advice ......beware the dreaded TAD! ( Tool acquisition disorder!) :)
and beware spending 90% of your time on making tools that you will only use 10% of the time. :)
Yes, that looks like a homemade smithin' magician.
Being a machinist, I am thinking of making a die set to forge out a design that has been running through my head for a couple of years.
There are various tool disorders, luckily they are not fatal :)
