stock thickness

I have a couple of German razors that are in the 6/8 range. the bigger one is more like 9/16. They have a spine thickness of around .175-.180 for the smaller one and .200 at the thickest part on the larger one. In the experience of the makers on here, are those good stock sizes for making modern custom 6/8 blades? I ask because I talked with the US sales guy from Voestalpine Precision Strip, formerly Bohler-Uddeholm Strip, yesterday and he told me that they will be shipping AEB-L in .175 and .198-.200 to one of the knife making suppliers in January. Could be fun. ;)

I buy nothing but .250 x 1 stock for my razors. If I want a larger razor I will just draw out the blade a little. I use a gas forge, so all I mess with is 1095 & O-1. I did order some 15n20 with my last shipment about 6 months ago for when I feel industrious and want to try a laminated steel. Still sitting is the "stock corner".

Unfortunately, .200 or, actually, .1965 is about as thick as they can go on the AEB-L. Forge welding that stuff, even to itself, apparently has a bit of a learning curve. If you are interested, the guy also said that they are talking about 15N20 stock in sizes up to 6mm (.243) maybe this coming summer. :D Voestalpine's strip steel division is not set up for super thick stock for obvious reasons, but their new mill in Austria can run this moderately thick stuff. it handles the bigger stock while the Swedish mill primarily produces the razor and thin bandsaw stock up to mourned .065.

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

I buy nothing but .250 x 1 stock for my razors. If I want a larger razor I will just draw out the blade a little. I use a gas forge, so all I mess with is 1095 & O-1. I did order some 15n20 with my last shipment about 6 months ago for when I feel industrious and want to try a laminated steel. Still sitting is the "stock corner".

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Can you weld it? A couple pieces of .200 would end up ok after a little hammer time

Yes, but the problem is that the few guys who are really good at forge welding stainless like that tend to be a rather tight lipped about their process. The only tutorial that I have seen is by a guy from Argentina and he was using lower carbon stuff to make damascus jewelry IIRC. You don't have the huge amount of info out here like you do for forge welding carbon steel. There is some info about how to make san mai with a carbon core and low carbon stainless cladding like 410 or 416, but it isn't an easy process from what I have read.

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Originally Posted by shooter74743

Can you weld it? A couple pieces of .200 would end up ok after a little hammer time

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An hour of trying is worth more in terms of learning experience than multiple hours of talking about it.
It's steel, after all. Heat it and beat it.

Bruno, in my case it is heat it and beat it again. I kinda discouraged myself a while back when it came to that stainless clad san mai. Have to get some more thicker 410 or 416. :banghead:

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Originally Posted by Bruno

An hour of trying is worth more in terms of learning experience than multiple hours of talking about it.
It's steel, after all. Heat it and beat it.

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In my experience, thicker layers are a lot easier.
I also crown the bars a bit, so that when I start hitting, everything (scale, flux etc) is driven out, starting from the middle.
That, and liberal amounts of borax between each heat until the piece is solid.

With stainless, you have to have an oxygen free environment on the surfaces you are welding. I tried MIG welding the seams, but my crappy little flux core wire welder was not up to the task. Next time, i will be using either a canister or a couple of layers of the high temp heat treat foil to seal up the stack. I use kerosene and borax on my carbon damascus and I have used the foil for "tile welding" mosaic so I didn't get the little white lines between the pieces.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

In my experience, thicker layers are a lot easier.
I also crown the bars a bit, so that when I start hitting, everything (scale, flux etc) is driven out, starting from the middle.
That, and liberal amounts of borax between each heat until the piece is solid.

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Originally Posted by JDM61

I have a couple of German razors that are in the 6/8 range. the bigger one is more like 9/16. They have a spine thickness of around .175-.180 for the smaller one and .200 at the thickest part on the larger one. In the experience of the makers on here, are those good stock sizes for making modern custom 6/8 blades? ;)

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What would make you think that the bevel angles would be different for 'modern' razors?

It is hard to spherodize anneal stainless steels once you got to forging and welding heat... Wouldnt it make more sense to buy wide strip and beat the spine thicker end on...

Btw if you could get 420 HC the 0.7 C versio ... you could with a lot of care get 59 Rc out of it... and it would be similarly tough and with small carbides than aebl... not the same obviously but very good performance...

I have seen some folks using full 1/4 stock for some 6/8 and 5/16 for 7/8 custom blades, so I am not sure what the current trends are.:shrug: The wider old German blade that I have is actually tapered from about .200 at the toe to like .180 above the heel, so it is a bit confusing.

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Originally Posted by bluesman7

What would make you think that the bevel angles would be different for 'modern' razors?

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That is something that I have thought off. You still need to get it pretty hot to do that. I don't know HOW hot.

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Originally Posted by AndreGrobler

It is hard to spherodize anneal stainless steels once you got to forging and welding heat... Wouldnt it make more sense to buy wide strip and beat the spine thicker end on...

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Originally Posted by JDM61

I have seen some folks using full 1/4 stock for some 6/8 and 5/16 for 7/8 custom blades, so I am not sure what the current trends are.:shrug:Unless the grind goes all the way to the top of the spine, those examples would be approaching wood chisel angles. I've seen people shave with wood chisels and plane irons, even axes, but these are not proper angles for razors IMO The wider old German blade that I have is actually tapered from about .200 at the toe to like .180 above the heel, so it is a bit confusing.

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What is the distance from the edge to the top of the spine wear at those two places on the German razor?

Right around .69-.7. Max width of the blade is around .8. It has a round spine. The smaller Wilhelm Mandt razor which is .175 thick is like .69 total width with the shorter rounded spine and like .625 from the hone wear. It has less wear so it may be a better benchmark.

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Originally Posted by bluesman7

What is the distance from the edge to the top of the spine wear at those two places on the German razor?

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Originally Posted by JDM61

Right around .69-.7. Max width of the blade is around .8..

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So in the 15-16 degree range. My kind of razor.

Hmmmm. So do you think that with AEB-L's reputation for very high fine edge keeness and stability, this could work in that 6/8 size range?

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Originally Posted by bluesman7

So in the 15-16 degree range. My kind of razor.

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I think the .20 would work OK for 5/8-6/8.
After measuring a lot of 6/8 razors I would bet the average is around .21-.22
I know Alpha will have (it may already but listed) some AEB-L that is .196

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Originally Posted by MileMarker60

I think the .20 would work OK for 5/8-6/8.
After measuring a lot of 6/8 razors I would bet the average is around .21-.22
I know Alpha will have (it may already but listed) some AEB-L that is .196

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not listed yet, but they are the only source for it at this time