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Santa brought me a new grinder. Time to get busy. I have several blanks roughed out of 1/4 1095. I see that most tapers begin just after the heel. On an old Wade it seemed to have tapered down to about 1/8” or 3/16”. Do you all just mark a centerline and eyeball the grind on either side or mark a set of double lines at the very end of the tang? I am struggling how to best and most consistently accomplish this.
I've only made a handful of razors, and on those the taper was forged in prior to cleaning up with a grinder, so maybe take this with a grain of salt...
I can see either or even both of those options as being good. The centre line to keep things balanced, and the double line to keep you from taking it too far. In time I imagine it's something that you will become comfortable doing by eye, but if you're unsure of that, then by all means mark it up in any way that will help.
My biggest piece of advice would be to go slow and check it often. It's much easier to take steel off than put it back on. :)
I mark the centerline on both sides of the tang. Then I halve the difference between the full thickness of the blade and how thick I want the end of the tang to be and mark two short lines right at the end of the tang. I don't have any kind of surface grinder or anything so I just use the big wheel on my belt grinder and eyeball it so it's as even as I can get. Razors made after the advent of drop forging in dies will always have very consistent sizes from piece to piece but when everything, not just razors, was hand ground a little bit of inconsistency shows up. Did you get the Fastback grinder or the 272 grinder?
I got the fastback with the 90 degree pivot mount. I love it. I have a flat platen, small wheel set, 12” wheel (mistake—- should have ordered a 4 and 6” wheel).
Another tang taper question.
Do you start the taper at the heel? I have an old Wade that seem to start about 1/2” prior to the heel. Wouldn’t that mess up a clean hone angle?
I tend to start as close to the heel as I can, you don't really want to ride up onto the spine forward of the heel as you will make that part of the blade more narrow and the honing angle will change. That being said if you do grind in front of the heel just a little it is not the end of the world unless you really gouge it with a coarse belt. Like I said in my previous post, a lot of the older razors will have small 'mistakes' like this. I freehand grind all my razors so there will always be a little variation. What kind of razors are you planning to make? Apart from some 11/16ths American style wedges I'm working on I make razors pretty much based on stuff made in the early to mid 19th century.Quote:
Originally Posted by woodscavenger
I mark a center line on the tang, both top and bottom. Then I grind. I try to do the same thing to both sides, as I go along. I grind a bit on one side, then flip it around and do the same to the other.
I will rough out the taper with grinding then draw file the taper to clean and true up.
If I lose the center line while grinding. I mark it again using an 1/8 drill bit. I keep some of the original flat surface on the top of the blade to until the end of the process to use as a reference. I put the blank on a flat surface and scribe with drill bit.
Spazola,
I think I recognize your comments from videos you have posted. I think I also recognize your avatar. I appreciate your videos.
I am going to do some research on drawfiling.
It looks like you use a 6” wheel. Is that what you use for most of your grinds which look like 8/8 profiles?
I started out using an 8" inch wheel then gravitated to a 4" wheel. I think it is easier to grind with the a bigger wheel but. I like the grind off a 4" wheel better. With a smaller wheel I can make the blade thinner behind the cutting edge and the grind a bit more hollow.
On an 8/8s you can use a 8, 6, 4 or even a 3 or less. For me the sweet spot is a 4".
I can't help you with the grinding, but I did a drawing with some measurements for a Custom razor I wanted making, the spine was 6mm then at the jumping just after the heel it tapered down to 4mm to the end of the tail, that's 1mm each side, the razor was a heavy quarter hollow grind.
https://i.imgur.com/GhJ100C.jpg
I forge in my tapers but the process will be the same for stock removal or forging.
Once I have my forged blank ground to the profile I want, I clean up sides of the spine and make them spine parallel. As I’m walking those surfaces in I just pay attention to keep the tang within grinding distance of what I want. Once those few things are sorted I strike a center line with a drill bit or a scribe while referencing the spine on a flat plate. I strike two lines, one for each side. I generally end up with a taper of some sort but just eyeball center as I work my way closer to final form. After heat treat I do it all again to make sure if I picked up a wobble in heat treat that I can grind it back to straight.
I'm going to be the eccentric one here. I don't mark anything.
First I grind the spine clean on both sides.
then I grind primary hollows. They don't need to be free from scale and may still contain forging marks.
Then I simply run a 36 grit belt at high speed, hold the blank by the point, with the edge up, and press the tang against the belt, making sure the edge is angled to the belt with the taper I want on the tang.
Then I do the other side, leaving enough thickness in the tail. I do each side a couple of times, eyeballing over the edge from point to tail.
When I am nearly there I simply clamp 2 pieces of wood to the tang and verify that the angle of each side with respect to the edge is correct. And then I clean up with 80 and 120 grit belts.
I don't scribe, measure, or calculate.
I try to end my taper at the spine tang junction just forward of the heel, an 1/8” to a 1/4”. I also like to hone my heel up the radius at the heel to help “scoop” out the hollows next to my Adam’s apple. Running the tang long or in other words the spine contact area short, makes it easier to hone more of the heel without doing a bunch of gymnastics on the jones to do so. I also like to leave the tail thickness over thickness and then walk that in later to help with balance towards the end of the finish grinding, taking into account my scale design as that will further push the balance into the tang. I prefer neutral at the thumb or a little tip heavy.
Bruno gave me some good advice: “make razors, make a lot.” What that did for me, at least my interpretation has been, gain experience and work out the issues in design in each iteration, you’ll get better at grinding and figure out how not to make easy mistakes, as well as how to fix or design around mistakes.
The other thing with razors, the heat treat. Doesn’t matter how cool or how ergonomic the tool looks or is, if it can’t take and hold a comfortable edge there is no reason to worry about design and ergonomics.
I have a couple of razors just out of heat treat, I’ll take some pictures after I clean up the decarb layer. Mind you ergonomics and geometry is towards my liking and wrist angle, yours may vary.
Pretty much every Sheffield I have runs the tang spine junction ahead of the heel. There is probably a reason.
Sine plate on my surface grind attachment for my 2x72.
Well just typed out a whole thing then an “error occurred” and the all the text and pics were gone.
Long story short, I grabbed two random razors off the mantle:
Attachment 327532
Attachment 327533
Like I said earlier most the razors I’ve come across have this feature.
Here is one of mine out of heat treat, I cleaned up a flat so you can see where I left it. The area is exaggerated as my spine is .03” oversized. The tail will get some more thinning and the junction only clean up. As I walk all the surfaces in on the grinder and final tweaks will be made hand sanding. Blade is currently 8/8, will be 7/8” when I’m done. Stock was 1/4x1”. My junction, finished, will be about .1” forward of the heel where it will hit the hone.
Attachment 327536
Attachment 327537
My apologies for the photo orientation, still haven’t figured out how to make pic’s from my phone orient properly.
As you hone the razor that junction naturally move back towards the tang. I wouldn’t make a razor without positioning the spine contact area at least in line with the heel.
Great responses. Thanks to all. My 6” wheel should show up tomorrow.
I think I may do one on the 12” as a near wedge just for kicks and practice.
The more wedge shaped the blade the more important it is to get the edge as thin as possible while grinding so you get a nice small bevel. I have actually started grinding to where I get a very thin burr at the edge when using my cork belt with emery (belt moving away from the edge). A nice thin edge makes setting the bevel faster too.
