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Here is my first attempt at a razor from scratch. It was going well until the very end when it developed wrinkles on the edge. I am guessing that there must be some internal stresses at work. The blade is ground down to .010 for approximately 3/16 from the edge. Maybe I ground it too thin? Maybe I did something funky with the heat treatment?
I learned a lot during the process and am ready to try again, this time I will buy some steel instead of using an old file.
Charlie
Great job! I think it looks good. Did you make a new forge?
ooooooo like it
For your first attempt that looks great!!!!!!! keep it up man!!!!
That's a beauty, wrinkles or not. Great work on the jimps. Keep at it, man. Very cool.
Chris L
Old files aren't good for files anymore. They can't cost as much as new ones or new steel.
Two things come out of this photo. There were internal stresses in the steel from the heat treatment and that's whats causing the blade to "potato chip." That's easy enough to fix with a few changes in how you are preparing the blade for heat treatment.
Second: It's a very good start.
Wow, coming from Mike Blue, if that was MY first razor, I'd be on top of the world. Seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Blue
Chris L
Mike,
Here are the steps I took. What should I change to keep this from happening again?
Heated till nonmagnetic and put in can of lime to anneal
I shaped with hacksaw and files and grinder. The blade never got hot enough to change color during this process.
I heated to nonmagnetic again let set another minute just to be sure than edge quenched in heated vegetable oil (130). I tested with a single cut mill file, it did not bite into the blade edge anywhere along the length.
I then tempered in my home oven at 400 for an hour let cool to room temp. Then did it again.
Then belt sanded/ground blade to shape.
I am thinking that maybe I should have quenched the whole blade instead of just quenching about 3/8 from the edge.
Thanks to everybody for the encouragement.
Charlie
Way to go! I'm looking forward to your next attempt!
Currently I'm stuck in town so it'll be until next weekend before I can do "some grinding" again :(
Exellent effort ,if thats your first go ,you are a natural .The wavey edge will probably be due to the edge being too thin
when you heat treated it , I leave about 1mm at least ,then finish grind even then there are a few waves that have to be ground out
keep practicing, just quietly I stuffed up my last one so dont tell any one
Kind regards Peter
Charlie, my first blades were a good deal more butt ugly. The current generation of makers coming up seems to be starting out a lot better off than the cohort that did with me twenty years ago.
I think you have the basics of the process down pretty well. Since there wasn't a lot of forging involved this little waviness may just be a fluke, or stresses left over from the steel mill before it became a file. Sadly, there are some files out there that are not very good steel, but case-hardened mild steels. If this thing threw good bunches of feathery white sparks the whole time grinding on it, you're safe. It wouldn't skate another file after hardening if that was true anyway.
But at some point I should write down the basics of grain refinement, aka thermal cycling. Some folks call it normalizing too. But that would be most necessary if you were forging or if your grinding style was to get the blade to change into a lot of colors when grinding. If your bulk stock removal was a file, probably not, but, the grain stress could have been left over from the steel mill too.
If I appear far sighted, it is because I am standing on the shoulders of giants...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Blue
Or something to that effect.
These days, with the internet, there is a ton of resources available that simply didn't exist when you started.
We have the advantage that we can learn from you and other topical experts.
And we can pass on our knowledge, each adding his or her own specialty to the mix of knowledge.
It's like when I started straight shaving. My technique was awful for years, and I had to learn everything the hard (= pain) way. And even after all those years, I still needed SRP to finally get the hang of it.
These days most new shavers who want to learn find a shaving site, and learn in 2 months what took me years to learn.
Very true indeed. Also it must have been hard to make the transition away from bronze to harder metals like iron or steel later on. :D - Sorry couldn't resist making a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Anyhoo, although I know squat about metal work, the blade, looks good stylistically. Barring the waves on the edge naturally as you mentioned.
Mike Blue mentioned "normalizing". It is something for you to consider and also the thickness of edge before heat treating. That and quench the whole blade, not just the edge.
Your first razor is far better than my first 5!:)
Did the edge curl during the heat-treatment or after you started grinding again? Either way, I think the problem is it got too thin. I that find if the grind isn't uniform in thickness prior to quenching, the thinner parts tend to buckle a bit. I haven't seen waves like that develop during finish grinding yet, but right at the edge you'll sometimes get some metal that's paper thin and starts to ripple. Maybe you've almost ground through the blade near the center?
Regardless, that's a fantastic first effort. Heck, it would be a good 10th effort. :)
Keep at it!
Josh
I remember using clam shells off the beach. That natural ceramic is a b**** to hone...:D Bronze was the latest and greatest because it was easier to sharpen...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chady
I used the same forge, it worked better this time. I am not sure if it was heating less mass, the lining was finally dry, or using a brick to block the opening instead of an old sad iron. I think using the brick made the biggest improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by tjiscooler
Charlie
The edge curled at the very end of the grinding. I was using a 600 belt wet, to clean up and bada bing I have a pringle. I said blue words. I measured all over with the micrometer. The grind is pretty consistent, that is unless I have a valley that is smaller the anvil on the micrometer.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshEarl
The grind looked pretty consistent before heat treating.
Thanks for all your guys help and encouragement. I have learned a lot from this forum.
Charlie
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazola
All of the above would have helped significantly. It's amazing how much more heat it takes to work with a bigger piece of metal. I started a big Bowie knife once using 2x1/4" steel, and it was brutal. It took me close to two hours to hammer a point onto the bar. I wasn't letting it get hot enough. I should have just popped it in the forge and walked away for three or four minutes for each heat, but I was pulling it out after less than a minute and whaling on it. :) Wore myself out pretty good.
Josh
Hmmm. I guess it was internal stresses like the other guys said. I haven't seen anything quite like that happen. How thick was the blade when you measured it?Quote:
Originally Posted by spazola
Josh
That is excellent for a first try!
The blade was pretty close to .010 for most of its length it was around .012 near the toe.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshEarl
I measured using my dial calipers today since they have a smaller footprint for measuring. I found a thin area running perpendicular to the edge .005 about 1” from the heel since I have a 1” wide contact wheel I am going to assume that I was rocking the blade and digging in the side of the wheel.. This does not look like cause of the problem though. Maybe I ground too thin, maybe some type of stress, maybe the razor gnomes are out to get me.
I am giving up on this one. It was a good learning experience.
I started on a frame back today after work.
Charlie
There you go! Try, try again.
Ah but the nice thing about working bigger pieces is that they don't loose their heat so quick. so you can work them for longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshEarl
I might not have any blade smithing experiance, but I started doing blacksmithing for fun at 13(probably could have earlier as my parents age limit was I needed to be able to pick the anvil up myself, and I got real big real quick)
Just as the blacksmith I bought my forge of told me, whenever it starts to seem like you need to put in a lot of force on a 800gram hammer, heat it more. Damn good tip that was, since if your work is hot enough it doesn't actually take much effort to bang it into shape...Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshEarl
Damn good try anyhow, I still need to work out how to make a blade, yours look like a bloody perfect razor!