Forging Frame Back razor... fixed or removable blades?

I just picked up a frame back with removable blades from ebay. Never owned one before, but i was surprised at the smoothness of the shave.

Examining the razor its construction would suggest it be easier to manufacture than a regular concave straight. It interests me because I got four blades with the frame and I suspect there are three blades missing from a seven day set.

For a fixed blade the frame (spine) could be slotted just under the thickness of the blade, the frame heated so it expands, the blade is frozen so it contracts and the two fitted together. As the both reach room temp will form a permanent weld.
Or flat stock may simply be ground away to form a “T” cross section, hardened then finished… similar to razors made before concaving became the norm.

A removable could be made by slotting of the frame... a simple screw taped into the toe end for locking mechanism.

A blade pattern could be cut from sheet stock, tapered then hardened and tempered.
You could even have different profiled blades depending on your mood... Spike, Round, Square, Spanish, French... no limit... Did you say “seven days set”… “No problem you could have 24/7 blades right here…”

How would you slot the frame? A mill? OK, now the blade has a portion on the end that its into the frame. Again, a mill?:shrug:

I've been interested in making framebacks, but the only way I could figure that it would really work is if I had a mill and was good at using it. A true frameback is two pieces--the spine is separate and welded in place. It seems simpler to make, because you just flat-grind the blade and then attach a spine to set the honing angle. But I couldn't get past the issue of slotting the spine.

Mills are spendy, but I've had my eye on one for a while... :)

Josh

Here is how I cut the groove on the frameback that I am making. I clamped the die grinder in a piece of wood and used a fiber reinforced cut off wheel.

You could thin the cut off wheel with a Carborundum dressing stone if you wanted. You could also rig up a slitting saw on an arbor. Slitting saws are available in many widths. You could also grind the kerf off a hacksaw blade and rig up some guides.

Where there is a will there is a way. (mostly)

Charlie

You have the best jigs!

Holey!!! Is that a home built slotting machine?

I was indeed thinking of a milling or slotting machine, but as Josh said, they are expensive (for me that is)… thought it best to visit a machine shop… only need to cut the shot.

But what looks like a “dremel like” flex shaft with a slitting saw… clamped in a slotted/drilled 2 by 4... and held together by a G clamp and a bench vice?..
What can I say…When you don’t have the machine to do the job, then build the machine that does the job… This is genius at work!.

This really cheered me up after an otherwise disastrous day (I broke 2 blades) … thanks for sharing….

And please post more pix of your progress.

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Originally Posted by smythe

And please post more pix of your progress.

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Here is a quick and dirty pic. I hardened and tempered the blade tonight and cleaned it up a little bit. The fit and finish are lacking, but I do not want to sink time into it until I know that it will work. I am in the process of setting the bevel now.

Charlie

look great so far!

That is so cool! I'm really impressed!

Looks like you pinned the blade to the frame...
What's the size of the blade? and Is the blade tapered?

Would love to hear the results of the shave.

That is really imaginative shop work, and the razor looks cool!:tu

I pinned the blade to the frame with 1/16 brass rod, I counter sunk a little bit then peened and draw filed. The blade is about .040, it is a piece of an old hand saw. The blade sticks out of the frame between 5/8 and 3/4. I tapered the blade so that the bevel would not be too large. If I sharpen with tape on the spine it comes out to about 15.5 degrees.

So far I have had two shaves the first was mediocre because of my sharpening. The second was a good but not a great shave. I think one or two trips to the hone and I will have it dialed in. It looks promising.

If the razor holds up and performs well I will finish it proper and make a decent set of scales. I will also bed the blade in epoxy to seal out the water, it rusts really fast.

I am really excited about shaving with something that I made. If I were a kid I would stick to the refrigerator with a big ole magnet.

Charlie

Those scales are good for a what i think is temporary scales... gives it a "rustic" look.
The detailing on that razor is damn good... for a prototype.

Yes it looks like you will have to seal the joint...
If all goes well you may want to remove the blade and pour epoxy in the slot then seat the blade before it cures and re-pin for good measure. You may even wipe the exes epoxy along the joint to form a nice radius... (like grout between the corner tiles).

Old hand saw blade... now that sounds like good source stock for my ebay frame back... I know i have one in my tool box... thanks for the hint.

No I work with silver and not steel so this might not be an option, but what if you set something in the middle and folded the steal over to create the channel. does that make sense or do I need to open paint?

I think that might work, it its flat and soft you can hammer it around the "blade" portion, you would have to harden and temper it too though, or it will grind away too fast while honing.

Nice style for the prototype!
Thank you for a great showing of how-to. I am interested in frameback technique. I have a Swedish 4/8ths that has a 1/16th blade full length and a "C" cross section thin spring steel clip over and along the spine.
~Richard

i must clarify that i have not made a frameback, but when making knives the best way to seal between two pieces of metal is silver solder. You do this after heat treat, use a low temperature silver solder and go carefully. Should be accomplished without damaging the hardness of the razor edge.

I have some experience with silver brazing for cutting tools to be hardened, often O-1 tool steels. I would suggest that the razor be brazed with IT grade or a braze that melts/flows at ~@1500-1800ºF prior to heat treat. That being done with a torch and the insert blade directed up with a fixture to assure the insert stays in place and heat applied to the frame till red and then to the insert also starting at one end, continue the heat till the other end of the insert is reached. Then any goof with the heat of the torch will not negate the temper. The silver solder will have a higher melting point after the joining. A poorly applied heat source over 300ºF can really travel through a thin section and draw the temper. Most silver bearing eutectic bismuth/lead solders do their work at 400-700ºF.
I would like to hear any suggestions why this would not work
~Richard

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Originally Posted by Adam G.

i must clarify that i have not made a frameback, but when making knives the best way to seal between two pieces of metal is silver solder. You do this after heat treat, use a low temperature silver solder and go carefully. Should be accomplished without damaging the hardness of the razor edge.

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Originally Posted by spazola

I am really excited about shaving with something that I made. If I were a kid I would stick to the refrigerator with a big ole magnet.

Charlie

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charlie was this your first razor? I just happened upon this thread randomly today.

Justin, I wish you wouldn't have. Now I am going to have to make a frame back.......

make one, and send it to me to test out!

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Originally Posted by justinA

charlie was this your first razor? I just happened upon this thread randomly today.

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Yep, thats razor number one. It starts out innocent enough then next thing you know you are laying awake at night trying to figure out how to make more razors. Oh well, at least I enjoy my razor making addiction.

Charlie

crazy to see how far youve come in two years. How did you learn medal and woodworking? ever made a kitchen knife?

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Originally Posted by justinA

crazy to see how far youve come in two years. How did you learn medal and woodworking? ever made a kitchen knife?

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I was fortunate to have a great metal shop teacher in high school. I was also lucky enough to be his teachers aid for a year also. I learned a lot from him. I went to trade school to be machinist after that, I had great teachers and mentors along the way. I try to learn from whomever I can.

It seems that I have always been tinkering and making things, it is what I do, it is who I am.

I have made one kitchen knife. I did not catch the kitchen knife bug like a caught the razor bug.

Charlie

Attachment 87397

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Originally Posted by spazola

I have made one kitchen knife. I did not catch the kitchen knife bug like a caught the razor bug.

Charlie

Attachment 87397

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looks solid enough

Want to try again? haha I'm in need of a new gyuto for work.