Damascus Custom Set - need help please.

Hi guys,
I've designed a nice hefty pair of razors just a little over 8/8 (28mm to be exact) from spine to edge with a 1/4 or a 1/2 hollow. the blade portion is 85mm or 8.5 cm long. I'm commissioning a custom knife-maker to make them from damascus that he makes himself using these components: 1070, 5160, 01, Cable, Chain. He says he's done a few one-off razors before, but mostly he makes art knives, daggers and folders etc, but says he has no problem doing straight razors. But I just wanted to ask you guys that know about the technical side of razor making, what key processes/methods/standards should I ask that he uses just to be sure he's making razors and not just razor shaped knives - or is it kinda the same thing...??? Sorry if these are real silly questions..:confused:

He says he can harden to between 60 and 65 and that he will differentially temper the blades so that the spine is more durable to knocks and bumps while the edge side of the blade is harder to retain a nice edge.. does this all sound right? I haven't heard of differentially tempered razors before, how should I direct him in this regard?
He also says he will give me some special kind of wax that will seep into the damascus to protect it over time - does this ring a bell with anyone?

And finally just on my design side - how thick should the thickest part of the spine be for a razor this size? - does it matter? and also what angle should the spine be to the cutting edge? (this goes hand in hand with the previous Q I suppose..)

Thanks for any input with this, I just don't want these to be glorified knives shaped like razors - you know what I mean..I'd like to use them as my daily shavers and want to be sure I can hone them up to a nice perfect edge.

Thanks again guys.

Let us know how is turns out, I'd like to commission a SR, too, but all the makers have months and months of delay. Regarding the spine thickness, I'm guessing that best would be to make it as thick as your thickest spine on a well shaving razor. I also wonder if you could make it thicker and how the angle of the bevel will affect the shaving capability of the razor. :shrug:

If you had an old Sheffield wedge to show him and give him something to go by it might be helpful. :shrug:

All good questions Jasper. Good things to think about going into a project like this.

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Originally Posted by Jasper Kade

... using these components: 1070, 5160, 01, Cable, Chain.

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Without knowing the proportions of each of the above, the end carbon content will be only an estimation. The O-1 can be up to 1.00%, but just calling it Cable or Chain means nothing to the equation. The chain could be wrought iron which will end up lowering the total carbon content. Same for cable.

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He says he can harden to between 60 and 65 and that he will differentially temper the blades so that the spine is more durable to knocks and bumps while the edge side of the blade is harder to retain a nice edge.. does this all sound right? I haven't heard of differentially tempered razors before, how should I direct him in this regard?

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But, if he can get his mixture hard enough, the razor will function. That was proved by one of Spazola's (Charlie's) blades that shaved well at Rc 50. At the very least, if he makes the steel, he should be the one to heat treat it. That will eliminate a "bunch of if's". Personally, I'd prefer that the whole blade was hardened, OR, differentially hardened and then temper the whole blade. Sometimes the words "hardened or hardening" and "tempered or tempering" are interchanged and while the intent may be clear after a few questions, it's really not very precise and hardening and tempering are really two very different processes with steel.

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He also says he will give me some special kind of wax that will seep into the damascus to protect it over time - does this ring a bell with anyone?

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Waxes can be as good as oils for keeping oxygen away from steel and preventing rust. Shaving daily with soaps will eventually remove any finish protection and that will require some maintenance replacement. Without knowing what the special wax is, it's tough to comment. There are a lot of methods out there and they all work to some degree. You'll just have to know the limitations of the one you get and work with it.

There is a lot to be said about having a blade that you participated in building. I think you're on the right track. A blade like that will be aesthetically different than a monosteel blade regardless, but nothing to shy away from as a shaver. Get the honing right and how the blade looks should not matter.

Good luck on your quest,
Mike

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Originally Posted by Jasper Kade

using these components: 1070, 5160, 01, Cable, Chain. He says he's done a few one-off razors before, but mostly he makes art knives, daggers and folders etc, but says he has no problem doing straight razors. But I just wanted to ask you guys that know about the technical side of razor making, what key processes/methods/standards should I ask that he uses just to be sure he's making razors and not just razor shaped knives - or is it kinda the same thing...???

differentially temper the blades so that the spine is more durable to knocks and bumps while the edge side of the blade is harder to retain a nice edge

And finally just on my design side - how thick should the thickest part of the spine be for a razor this size? - does it matter? and also what angle should the spine be to the cutting edge? (this goes hand in hand with the previous Q I suppose..)

Thanks for any input with this, I just don't want these to be glorified knives shaped like razors - you know what I mean

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I'll give my input into the above questions FWIW. I agree with Mike in terms of the unknown content of some of this stuff and how it could be shaky. True- only the maker can speak for his experience with his own damascus, but personally if I were spending thousands on a project like this (don't know if you are) I would at least want a guarantee that it would shave well (which he may or may not be able to give). We don't know the amount of each material he uses either but with 1070, 5160, cable, and chain- the low carbon content in the overall knife kind of scares me.

As for a differentially treated blade I think it is totally unnecessary. IMO a lot of knifemakers get into that kind of thing as a marketing technique. It sells knives when people think you use the absolute best steels and methods or when you can talk metallurgy that they have no comprehension of all day. In this case, the technique has little to no bearing on the end product. Will you use the razor like a samurai sword? Who treats their razor like 'knocks and bumps' are a daily routine anyway, especially with some custom damascus piece?

I'd suggest for an 8/8+ razor to have the spine at a 1/4". This is how a lot of the old ones were. As for angle it's kind of common sense. I've spoken to a lot of custom razor makers and have come to the concensus that most ballpark the spine to edge angle. There are a wide array of angles that will give you a comfortable shave IMO.

What else to ask the maker? I really don't know. I have seen razors that were obviously ade by a knifemaker who knew little about razors. In person it's obvious. Did they shave? Who knows. Aesthetics can be totally personal though and a razor really doesn't neeeed to look like a razor to shave. It's a touchy subject I'd say. I don't think you'd find a lot of knifemakers who would admit to reeeeally not knowing anything about razors before they agreed to make you one. Then again, everyone has to start somewhere and he says he already has.

Thanks Mike, thanks Alex - your knowledge of such matters is greatly appreciated - Mr. Blue's comments are a bit more hopeful I must say, but Alex, your matter-of-fact reply is very welcome too, so thanks again guys, I think he's on the right track then, he does genuinely seem to know what he's talking about, it's not just marketing talk I think. As for the components of his damascus, if you say the carbon content sounds low on those components then that does kinda worry me too - I'll ask him to explain the overall carbon content on the final blades. Ultimately I reckon it should turn out well though. He's got 10 years making his own damascus so I'm sure he'll know how to best treat his steels for the purpose of shaving... interestingly he also colours his damascus.. has anyone heard of damascus being coloured before?

As for the price, the cost of the razors - without scales (I'm making those meself :D) is around $400 a blade, and thats with file-worked spines - and made to my exact design. So not too bad, we'll just have to see how they turn out, and of course how they hone up and shave ;)

Oh! just remembered another Q - I read something somewhere about the different steels in the damascus creating a micro serrated edge, how severe is this to shaving? And is this just a reality with damascus blades? Also how can this be overcome if at all?

Thanks again guys.

Here are some images of his damascus knives - these are coloured damascus and you can see some of the patterns are quite masterfully executed...:) He also does the woodgrain standard style patterning...of course.

i would love to get a hold of some of that dragons skin Damascus to make some stuff out of

Yeah it's pretty wild right, I haven't seen damascus like this before - the dragon skin pattern is catching my eye too.. lets look at more shall we..

Wow, fantastic patterns!



I wanted to chime in on the differential tempering.

I have it in my Russel Baldrdge custom razor as I wanted a hamon, which necessitates differential tempering.

Looks great! But having the spine softer than the edge menas that it will wear MUCH faster, and thus require taping the spine for honing.

Hi there, yeah, but given that we're talking about damascus blades here, taping the spine is part of the package anyways, so nothing lost then really - plus I'd tape the spine of any custom razor to be honest. These patterns he does are so intricate and attractive, it's gonna be hard to pick just one... but I'll manage I'm sure. :)

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Originally Posted by Jasper Kade

Hi there, yeah, but given that we're talking about damascus blades here, taping the spine is part of the package anyways, so nothing lost then really - plus I'd tape the spine of any custom razor to be honest. These patterns he does are so intricate and attractive, it's gonna be hard to pick just one... but I'll manage I'm sure. :)

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Aha, I hadn't thought of that (damascus requiring taping anyhow).


Yeah, it's gonna be hard for you.....you're a real trooper for suffering through anyhow! A true inspiration I'd say!:rofl2:

Well i can only speak for the spine width.
As said before... back in the days when straight razors was the norm, an 8/8 (25mm) razor would have a spine width of about 1/4 inch (7.1mm).

I would suggest you make the spine slightly more than 1/4 inch and reduce when grinding.

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Originally Posted by Jasper Kade

. ...I think he's on the right track then, he does genuinely seem to know what he's talking about, it's not just marketing talk I think. As for the components of his damascus, if you say the carbon content sounds low on those components then that does kinda worry me too - I'll ask him to explain the overall carbon content on the final blades. Ultimately I reckon it should turn out well though. He's got 10 years making his own damascus so I'm sure he'll know how to best treat his steels for the purpose of shaving... interestingly he also colours his damascus.. has anyone heard of damascus being coloured before?

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The carbon content merely helps judge potential hardness. The old way of making damascus (pattern welded steels, not wootz) was to mix mild steel or wrought iron and a high carbon steel. Then you end up with a medium steel that may not perform successfully as you'd like. Ten years of experience says a lot and his patterns do look good.

The coloring of steels can be done with either tempering or with chemicals. The chemical baths are in the 290 degree F range and will not create any problems with the blade hardness. Some folks will temper hardened blades severely to get the nice colors, but that has the risk of also reducing the desired end-hardness. It really depends on how well controlled the process is, and the type of steels, some have higher tempering ranges than others.

The coloration is merely an oxide on the surface of the steel. With use, this very thin layer will wear away to some degree. It is rust protective in a small fashion. Any area of the blade that is abraded, as in honing, will be subject to rusting again.

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Oh! just remembered another Q - I read something somewhere about the different steels in the damascus creating a micro serrated edge, how severe is this to shaving? And is this just a reality with damascus blades? Also how can this be overcome if at all?

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For all practical intents and purposes, this is a myth. Honing will remove any of the etching, hence visible, differences in the materials used in a patterned blade. At that point, the honed edge will be no different than a simple monosteel honed in the same fashion. If both materials harden, then the whole edge is subject to the microfractures and wear typical of a monosteel blade.

The micro serrated edge implies that one of the two materials in layers is softer than the other and will wear away to some degree leaving the harder material standing proud. I know only a few makers, with sufficient knowledge of heat treatment, to make a blade steel and heat treat it in such manner. It would require exquisite temperature controls and knowledge of the parent materials that is uncommon. You'd likely have a hard layer against a less hard layer rather than hard against soft.

The only other combination of materials with this potential would be a high carbon steel laminated against pure nickel. Then manipulated to create a high layer count and twisted so the former edge of billet wrapped around the outside of the bar. The nickel will not harden, but then won't necessarily wear away quicker either, it sort of smears. The pattern to do this would have to be very fine, almost to the point where it wouldn't be very attractive.

You could use a coarse abrasive at the edge, then you'd have microscopic grooves at the edge which would create a serration like effect. The subsequent damage to your skin would probably put you off shaving that way for quite a while.

A couple more two penny thoughts anyway.

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Originally Posted by Jasper Kade

He says he can harden to between 60 and 65 and that he will differentially temper the blades so that the spine is more durable to knocks and bumps while the edge side of the blade is harder to retain a nice edge.. does this all sound right? I haven't heard of differentially tempered razors before, how should I direct him in this regard?
He also says he will give me some special kind of wax that will seep into the damascus to protect it over time - does this ring a bell with anyone?

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If he can get the blade to harden to 60 and 65 then it has plenty of carbon. Don't worry about what he is using unless you have a special request for certain steel combinations. From the pictures you posted the guy is doing just fine. He knows his patterns and steel combinations he is going to use better than any of us here. I'm not sure why he wants to differentially temper the blade. It may be due to his heat treating technique. It doesnt really matter on a straight razor in my opion. It may leave a what some people call a temper line in the damascus, if he is using the edge quench technique like ed fowler. I don't care for it but some people like it. I have heard of people using Rennaisance wax. I'm sure there are different kinds of wax out there that different people use. Hey maybe even good ol car wax would work.

Yeah, Rennaisance Wax is what he said - told me I'd have to heat the blade and let this wax seep into the razor about once a month, but that if I didn't want to do that it would still be fine - just have to oil and take care of it like any other high carbon monosteel blade.

Guys, your assistance here is truly appreciated, and I certainly feel very confident that he'll produce some lovely razors. Can't wait to get them done now...

From what I recall, you are a graphic designer/artist or something, correct?


I can't wait to see what the blades look like that you designed!

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

I wanted to chime in on the differential tempering.

I have it in my Russel Baldrdge custom razor as I wanted a hamon, which necessitates differential tempering.

Looks great! But having the spine softer than the edge menas that it will wear MUCH faster, and thus require taping the spine for honing.

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Actually, Russel hardens differentially, and then -I think- tempers the whole blade. I.e. Russel doesn't differentially temper.

Hey Seraphim, yeah I'm a graphic designer, but now you got me all worried about if the design is good enough :( But actually I'm pretty pleased with the relative "uniqueness" of my design(geez it's tough trying to make a razor 'different'), I like the classics but wanted to give it a little something eccentric, but I'll show you guys the final set in a nice razor photo-shoot once I get them... I'm also gonna ask the maker if he could take some in-process shots of him making the razors (I always find that interesting to document, and I'm sure you guys wouldn't mind seeing some workshop photography...)

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Actually, Russel hardens differentially, and then -I think- tempers the whole blade. I.e. Russel doesn't differentially temper.

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Hmmm, yeah, Idon't know. All I know is that the edge is nice and hard, and the spine is not. How it got that way....:thinking: I leave that up to Mr. Baldridge

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Originally Posted by Jasper Kade

Hey Seraphim, yeah I'm a graphic designer, but now you got me all worried about if the design is good enough :( But actually I'm pretty pleased with the relative "uniqueness" of my design(geez it's tough trying to make a razor 'different'), I like the classics but wanted to give it a little something eccentric, but I'll show you guys the final set in a nice razor photo-shoot once I get them... I'm also gonna ask the maker if he could take some in-process shots of him making the razors (I always find that interesting to document, and I'm sure you guys wouldn't mind seeing some workshop photography...)

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Any sneak peeks?????:rolleyes:

Or do we have to wait 6 months like you do?

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Originally Posted by Jasper Kade

Hi there, yeah, but given that we're talking about damascus blades here, taping the spine is part of the package anyways, so nothing lost then really - plus I'd tape the spine of any custom razor to be honest. These patterns he does are so intricate and attractive, it's gonna be hard to pick just one... but I'll manage I'm sure. :)

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Just one huh? Sure.:roflmao:D:w

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Originally Posted by TiltbackJack

Just one huh? Sure.:roflmao:D:w

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Yeah, hey wait a second! He's said he's getting a PAIR of them!


The nerve!:rant:

Hey fellas, yeah I said I'm getting a "Matching Pair" done, so only have the burden of picking one pattern.. and I'm actually thinking of keeping it pretty traditional with a woodgrain or waterdrop pattern...

But now you got me thinking of the possibilities with two patters . . :hmmm:
Maybe I should work in a 'Jekyll & Hyde' theme with one razor looking all sophisticated and the other a little more dishevelled - know what I mean? Hmmmm, so many options, Lord why me??! WHY ME?!??:p:rofl2:

If you're shelling out for two customes, why on earth would you want them to be exactly the same?! (OK, a matched pair IS pretty cool...)

But the ability to get two of those different kinds of patterns? Two different blades shapes?

Yeah, I've already specified a matching pair in terms of blade shape and thats really what i want, but I will think about the different patterns - that might be pretty cool actually. :hmmm:

Now guys, I've spoken to the maker and he thinks that a spine thickness of 7mm or more is just way too thick... he says the blade will look "silly" I think he's just not into bigger blades and probably reckons a razor should be dainty etc.. But do you guys think a spine thickness of 6.5 / 7mm on a blade 27mm from spine to edge is gonna look strange?? I reckon even an 8mm thick spine will look in proportion - but he's got me worried about the aesthetics now...

Any thoughts? Any reasons to consider a thinner spine? is there a ratio for these measurements??

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Originally Posted by Philadelph

I don't think you'd find a lot of knifemakers who would admit to reeeeally not knowing anything about razors before they agreed to make you one. Then again, everyone has to start somewhere and he says he already has.

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Originally Posted by Jasper Kade

Now guys, I've spoken to the maker and he thinks that a spine thickness of 7mm or more is just way too thick... he says the blade will look "silly" I think he's just not into bigger blades and probably reckons a razor should be dainty etc.. But do you guys think a spine thickness of 6.5 / 7mm on a blade 27mm from spine to edge is gonna look strange??

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He's obviously never seen an 8/8 vintage razor in person... this is what I was talking about when knifemakers don't actually study the products they agree to make. I've got at least three 8/8+ antique razors and all have at LEAST a .250" spine.

There is a ratio! Razors don't have spines for looks, they have them because that's what sets the angle of the razor! The ratio changes based upon what angle you want the razor to be sharpened at, so we have to resort to math.

Trigonometry handles the spine width for us. if you want a 16 degree angle, then we split the 16 into two, so we are effectively dealing with a right angle. so 8 degrees for each half of the razor. if the razor is an 8/8, then that's one inch. so we can calculate the width of the razor in inches easily. For simple resolution, well turn the 8/8 into 32/32. Let X = half of the spine width.

tan(8) = x/32 So we multiply both sides by 32 to isolate X

32 * tan(8) = X, which is 32 * 0.140540835 = X when we multiply we get:

4.49730671 = X

Since X = half of the spine width, we have to multiply our result by two.

2 * 4.49730671 = 8.99461342

Since this is half of 1/32000ths of an inch away, we can go ahead and round that up to 9. Our unit of measure was 32nds of an inch, so the spine width of an 8/8 razor honed to a 16 degree total angle should be 9/32ths of an inch.

So, according to math, Philadelph is right that you should make the spine at least 0.250". If your custom maker says it will "look funny", then ditch him. A razor is a tool, and looks come secondary to function. If the spine is too thin, then the angle will be very low and the edge gets thin as well. Thinner edges dull faster as they have less strength. They will be easier to ding, roll when stropping, and everything else that is bad when using a straight. It's obvious to me that this guy doesn't have a clue. A good razor maker should be able to do this. If a razor maker has seen enough razors in his day, then he'll be able to "eyeball" it and see what looks right from experience.

I wouldn't be spending that kind of money on a guy who doesn't have a great reputation among the straight razor crowd. There are plenty of highly talented custom razor makers, all of whom have a reputation to protect within our community. They wouldn't put out anything less than great quality. This guy, while I am sure he makes fantastic knives, doesn't have his reputation on the line here. Plus, what kind of scales is he going to put on?

While I would love to find a new custom straight maker for the community, I wouldn't want to do it with my money on what would seem such a high dollar project. Philadelph is getting into customs, and Butch is making quite a name for himself as well.

If you decide you wan't a different width of razor, give me the angle you want and the width you want, and I'll figure out the necessary spine width to fit your requirements for you.

EDIT: I just realized you wanted 27mm edge to spine.... so 2*[27*tan(8)] = 7.6 mm wide at the spine. I'd go ahead and make it 8 mm wide, which gives you an angle of 16.5 degrees.

So yeah, get your guy to use an 8mm wide spine.

If he uses a 6.5 mm spine width, that will give you a total angle of 13.5 degrees, which is too thin!

Remember that the #1 rule of design is that if it looks great but doesn't work at all, it isn't worth anything! Art for pure art's sake is nice in paintings, but when it comes to tools function must be top priority. If you can make something work wonderfully AND look great, then that's fantastic, but if it looks great but doesn't work, then it's trash.



By the way, when you get your razor made, if it is 27mm, then that's the same as 17/16". just a tad bigger than an 8/8 razor.

If you are still going to use this guy to make the razor, then I would google a bunch of pics of 8/8 razors, print them out, and show the guy what they look like, just so he can have at least a clue of what they should look like and their proportions.

I think some ducks are at 13*? I also remember that Russel Baldridge did a lot of experimentation with edge angle and found that, given good steel, pretty much everything within 12* to 22* shaved well.

Thanks Ben. :bow - though my head is still spinning after (trying) to read all that. But I'll take your word for it, that those figures are correct. I did make a mockup of the blade with two-part putty to see the thickness in my hand and yeah, it really doesn't look all that strange even with an 8mm thick spine, it seems appropriate for the size of the blade...

I'll admit this guy isn't a dedicated razor maker, but he has a lot of experience making knives, and his heat treating and grinding skills are top notch I think, so with a little direction in terms of these figures and angles, I'm confident I'll have a beautiful and practical set of razors. I have already sent him a ton of big-blade razor images, so he does know what I'm looking for. I think it's just his personal preferences coming though, since he did say that if I want it 8mm thick then he'd do that no problem, he was just giving me his opinion. Which is why I just wanted to make sure that with an 8mm thick spine I wasn't screwing up the angles and making the razors useless, or at least not excellent in terms of shaving.

So is it safe to proceed with this info? Is a blade with a width of 27mm / 1.0629 inches from (the back of the spine - not the part that touches the hone) good to go with an 8mm / 0.3149 inches thick spine?

I've heard that there are a good number of angles that will work well for the cutting edge of a razor. So could say a 7mm or even a 6.5mm(1/4 inch) thick spine not do just as well??


Thanks once again to everyone for plodding through all this with me.

27 mm width
8 mm spine
17* edge angle

7 mm spine
14.9* edge angle

6.5 mm spine
13.8* edge angle

Here is one of dozens of triangle solvers on the net. You fix 3 of the sides and it will calculate the angles for you. (side a is the spine, side b = side c)
http://home.att.net/~srschmitt/scrip...triangles.html

Shaving well does not equal durability. When I think of some qualities of a good razor, shaving well tops the list. My second concern is how long that razor will shave well. If I have to rehit the hones every other shave to keep it shaving well, then it's not a good razor.

Edge durability is directly affected by edge geometry. The wider the angle, the more steel you have supporting the edge. This helps the razor maintain that good geometry for longer. Also if you were to ding a 13 degree razor and a 22 degree razor on your faucet with the exact same amount of pressure, the resulting ding would be worse with the 13 degree razor.

If a 13 degree razor and a 22 degree razor both shave equally well, then we should choose angles based on the durability of the shave. Were I designing a razor, I would probably go with a 17 degree angle or so. This might make the spine thicker , but in my book that's a good thing. A thicker spine means more weight, and generally I like shaving with a heavier razor. that's why wedges are popular with many people.

I don't think an extra 0.75 millimeters on both sides of the spine is going to make a huge difference cosmetically, and it would make the razor more durable as well as giving the added advantage of weight.

So, I'm still sticking with Philadelph. if you have a 17/16 razor (27mm), then I would say at least 0.250" thick at the spine.

In addition, it depends on how well your guy can control the heat treat of the razor. If the hardness of the razor gets too high, then the steel is more brittle, and as a result chips easier. Chippy razors are no fun to hone; just ask anyone who has struggled with one (for example, a Wacker). Thicker angles give additional edge strength, and help resist chipping. I have a spyderco pocket knife in S30V steel, and if I sharpen it at 15 degrees per side it chips easily, but if I go to 18 degrees per side I have no problems. That's a difference of six degrees, but it goes to show that thicker = less chippy.

I think the numbers you posted should work fine for a razor.

My next question for your maker would be about exactly what kinds of steel would be in the razor, how he plans to heat treat it, and what rockwell hardness (C scale) number would he be striving to achieve.

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Originally Posted by Ben325e

Edge durability is directly affected by edge geometry. The wider the angle, the more steel you have supporting the edge. This helps the razor maintain that good geometry for longer. Also if you were to ding a 13 degree razor and a 22 degree razor on your faucet with the exact same amount of pressure, the resulting ding would be worse with the 13 degree razor.

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Not really, 'cause if you dinged one of your matched set of totally custom damascus blades on the faucet you'd kill yourself and it wouldn't matter. :D

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I would probably go with a 17 degree angle or so. This might make the spine thicker , but in my book that's a good thing. A thicker spine means more weight, and generally I like shaving with a heavier razor. that's why wedges are popular with many people.

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Not sure if it's revelant since these are all 5/8 blades. but just an observation of what I have to look at (lengths eyeballed with a straight edge).

Dovo Micarta - 5 mm, 16 mm -> 18*
Dovo Bergischer Lowe - 5 mm, 16 mm -> 18*
Kinfolks Top-Notch - 5 mm, 17 mm -> 16.9*
Kahnweiler True Edge - 5 mm, 16 mm -> 18*

[quote=Quick;308684]Not really, 'cause if you dinged one of your matched set of totally custom damascus blades on the faucet you'd kill yourself and it wouldn't matter. :D


LOL, touche!! I concede this point!

Ben325 has once again cut through the Gordian knot of blither-blather and told it like it is!:rock:


I generally use my CAD software to determine bladewidth to spine to bevel angle dimensions, but there's more than one way to skin a cat, as they say...


Important reason #2 to have a big, beefy spine--


So you can see even MORE of that cool damascus patterning along the back too!!!!!:tu



In that vein, have you considered a 16/8 blade with a 1/2" spine?:nj

OK, I'll unveil the Power of CAD!

Here's a comparrison of a 17 degree bevel on the left, with a 13 degree bevel on the right.

I measured the blade thickness at a distance of 50 microns from the edge. The 13 degree bevel edge is only 11 microns thickness, the 17 degree bevel is 15 microns thickness, about a 36% increase in thickness.

Very good thread.

Regarding spine width. The usual rule of thumb was that the blade width is approx 3.5 X the thickness of the spine. It seems to vary from 3 to 4.

So your 1/4" thick spine is even thinner than that. The consequence is that the bevel will be wider which will require more time to hone.


Just my $.02,:)