Old style forged blades

As I learn about blacksmithing parts for muzzleloaders I got to thinking about making older straight razors. I need to find out if the steel used to make ML parts and the steel in a straigh razor of the time where compatible. Granted heat treat would be different, posably (still researching this) but may not be that far off.

With my interests in colonial stuff lately I find that there are not as many razors available in useable conditions (and would one want to risk it). So I figured with my building interest in making the ML parts I could also forge some blades in the pre 1800's style and see if that worked for me.

I'm waiting for some more books to show up at the library to see what base steel or iron was used to forge parts from. I would think the same equipment could be used to make these blades and parts with.

This will be an interesting thing to figure out and try. My first attempts are going to be based off my Clark n Hall Warrented as it's my oldest razor. Till I find some early colonial razors to base designs off of. I'd imagine Pins and collers are going to have to be made as well, as well as being very distinct for the era.

that sounds ace ill be intrested to see the results a recreating done the old way is just as valid in my book as an old one was the day it was made

A simple 10xx series steel will be sufficient. Old steels did not have the minor alloying elements that we see in even the simple steels today. That's because there was a lot less recycling/remelted steel available. The same steel that makes sparks for fire strikers or frizzen parts will be good enough.

I have read that old-time blacksmiths often had to make do with whatever was at hand, so I imagine that there would have often had to resort to grabbing bits of iron and making steel by adding in carbon.

That said, were colonial razors made by blacksmiths? It seems likely to me that a razor would require equipment (mainly grinding tools) not available to the average blacksmith. I think razors were probably a professionaly manufactured commodity for centuries. I'd love to see some examples of hand-made razors, if anyone has come across them.

Josh

In my reading of old books available thru Google Books I ran across one that said the concave portion of the blade was hand forged into the blade. However there was no description of the forming tool that was used .

Perhaps a swag of some type?:thinking:

Old books are great for that--they'd say things like "take care to use the razor properly, lest you cut your throat," without giving much detail about what "properly" entails. :)

I talked to Mike Blue about forging in the hollows a while back, and it seems like it would be possible but difficult. We kicked around some ideas for a tool but didn't come up with anything spectacular.

I would probably try to use a guillotine-style tool with dies on both sides. The big anvil tool I have on my website could accept dies that might work. The problem would be that there would be that the force would be spread out over a lot of surface area, and it would take a while to move the metal.

I haven't pursued it because it seems like it would be hard to ensure that the edge winds up centered...

I'm in the process of doing some research into barber-surgeons on the early 16th century right now. A bit earlier than your time, but I'll try and pass on what I find when I do.

Frameback with "saw" or "file" steel for the blade?

The couple pre 1800's I have seen are not semetrical at all. The edges seem to have been ground, however they where shapped, into a straight edge. Much like pounding flat one side of a piece of bar stock shapped like a popcicle stick. Gring off the hollows till somewhat even and punch the hole. That is my first plan at least.

Thanks for the post - I'm interested in 17th century razors... or whatever they shaved with. I've only found 2 pics so far.

I notice you've found Clavichord who has lots of very old razors.

Also interested in hearing about the 16th century razors.

All the best,
Michael.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DwarvenChef

The couple pre 1800's I have seen are not semetrical at all. The edges seem to have been ground, however they where shapped, into a straight edge. Much like pounding flat one side of a piece of bar stock shapped like a popcicle stick. Gring off the hollows till somewhat even and punch the hole. That is my first plan at least.

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Do they appear to be like wedges? Or do they have some sort of fuller?

Thanks,
Michael.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FTG

Do they appear to be like wedges? Or do they have some sort of fuller?

Thanks,
Michael.

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Not sure what "some sort of fuller" means.

Not like the later wedges as far as I can tell but not very holow ground. A fruit knife with a thick spine is what comes to mind for me.

Thanks for the description.

What I meant by fuller was like the channel down the centre of a sword blade...

or... like a hollow grind - except forged, had the groove 'knocked' in, rather than ground out.

All the best,
Michael.

Ok that makes sence, I would think so, I'm still trying to get one of the blades made that way. Not easy when you low bid all the time :p Gives me some interesting ideas to write down and try :p

While doing some research I did find this guy's replica work. Based off of the[Mary Rose finds as well as some imagery and other remnants

Those are some really interesting pieces. The curved shape is consistent with a hand forged blade. Thanks for the link!:)

Seen some others with that "Rat Tail" on them. Was that a common feature back in that era?

Thanks for the replica link.

Have you seen the source material for these razors?

All the best,
Michael.

I have seen woodcuts and photos of the scales found in the Mary Rose, but unfortunately very few are in digital format. With the woodcuts, it is a bit hard to tell, but if you look at this image from the mid-late 1600s you can see in the back, pointing towards the hair-washer's posterior what is likely to be a razor out of scale. The fact that it is underneath obviously oversized-scissors and what could be a strop as well as on the table next to a shaving bowl (used to capture lather and water dripping off the face before it would get on the clothes) gives reasonable testament to it being a razor.
http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/14200/142...p_14277_lg.gif

This image, the best I could find, of the scales from the Mary Rose recovery lend to a very straight form, almost more like an early pocket knife. Unfortunately the blades were rusted away long before the discovery of the wreckage.
http://www.maryrose.org/lcity/barber/images/razors.jpg

There is a forum in the user cp someone made a razor from a file it has same amount carbon and whatever else is in the razor there it als tells you about heat temperment and everything youneed to do.