File Neck Knife

I wasn't sure where to post this, so it's ended up here.

I managed to combine two things I've wanted today. To make a knife, & to own a necker.

I got a worn out ancient file that had belonged to my grandfather as my start point. I deliberately went for one of the old boys files so that I had something hardened right the way through, & so that an old piece of junk that belonged to him had a new lease of life.

I basically ground away everything that I didn't want & ended up with this.

My question for you chaps is......If I kept it from getting hot during the process, will it need a heat treat, or has it likely remained hard?

Keep your eyes peeled for "Homemade Kydex Sheath"! :D

Oh man, that is seriously cool.

The file makes for a great pre-made grip too! Awesome stuff.

I love how you kept the grooves for the grip and thumb jimps. That is a seriously cool looking knife.

Thanks for the comments! I wanted it to be obvious that it was made from a file, & it made sense to use what was already there for grip. The hole was also there already.

Despite utilising the ready made features, I was amazed how long it took. That's some very hard metal! Keeping the temperature low was a priority, so I couldn't rush it.

I think it's going to be fine as it is, as it's taken an edge you can shave arm hair with. I cut some paper & cardboard, & it still shaves.

woudl think an hour at 400f in a kiln or proper preped oven would temper that to be more usefull
or "blue the spine" with heat and have a soft back and hard edge

but that sure is a cute little necker

Thanks for the advice, Butch. I'll do some reading on it before I attempt anything.

I have even more respect for you boys now. Three hours with power tools to make the thing, & on top of that, I'm so filthy I'll have to soak for another three!

That is a super cool looking knife. As long as it did not turn brown or blue from grinding, I think that it should be good. I would temper it like Butch said and go and see how it works.

That is one of the coolest knife I have seen in a very long while.

Charlie

Cheers Charlie. I am going to take Butch's advice. Done my reading now. I'm going to bake it at 210-220 deg C buried in sand to ensure even heating. I don't trust myself to blue the spine!
Currently it can sharpen a pencil like you wouldn't believe. :D

the file would most likely be in the 65RC range and with that temper you shold come down to 59-60 and still take a killer edge
the fisrt few knife i made were out of old files so i know how mych the grinding sucked

My grandfathers shop is full of old files that seem pretty toasted, not a one of them cuts anymore... I may have to look into these goodies when I get set up there :)

Ben, that looks awesome!

Great job! :bow

Looks really good Ben!

Regards,
Neil

Wow, you have found your calling! Beautiful design!

When I was making custom knives many would say "I could do that for a lot less money" I told them "then you do that and I'll buy them from you." Only a few ever did and they refused to do it more than once.
You did a great job. I hope the filth and effort don't stunt your will to repeat the process. You will find many sources of raw material as you go along. Be picky. There are many sources available for either cheap or free so don't use a cracked or stressed steel just because it is there.

Will you adopt me Ben? Please?!

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Originally Posted by JMS

Will you adopt me Ben? Please?!

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That might be weird. I'm 34!

It's not something I'd want to do without power tools.
I used a 4" grinder, belt sander & a drill, though I could have gone without the drill.
If you guys have those, have a go. With some patience, It's pretty easy.

Nice one, I will have to give that a try.

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Originally Posted by deighaingeal

When I was making custom knives many would say "I could do that for a lot less money"

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i said that too when i was web shopping a 600$ folder
http://img.over-blog.com/500x736/0/2...Wilkins/W1.jpg (snake wood dammy blade middle right was jsut about what i wanted )

i now have over 6k$ in tools and really should have more but i am having fun making knives and razors

Ben, that is just fabulous, I love the way you adapted the original product to its new use!

That looks great.

If you did not let it heat up while grinding you probably wont have to temper it again. It will be hard, probably harder than a knife should be... This will make it harder to sharpen and a bit more prone to chipping the edge. On the other hand, it will hold its edge very well once you have it...

I would probably just use the knife as is and see how it performs. To change the hardness with any sort of accuracy you will have to anneal it (Which, if you were going to do it, should have been done at the start. It would have made the grinding easier) then quench, then temper. Doing all this on a knife that already has its final edge is kind of asking for cracks and warping IMO. Just give it a try and see how it goes, as is.

That looks sweet. I love the handle being left as a file and the little bit of file still in the spine of the blade. It looks to be about 5-6 inches total length is that about right.
Iv'e been grinding away at an old file now and then trying to make a fixed blade razor. And seeing how well your knife turned out I think I'll have to start up on it again.

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Originally Posted by gandrw

It looks to be about 5-6 inches total length is that about right.

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It's 5 1/2", so right in the middle of your guess. The good news is, it was an 11" file! Good luck with yours. I think I'd struggle with a razor.

Legion, I think the tempering in the oven that Butch suggested is to remove some of the hardness & make the knife more durable. It's seriously hard right now. You can hear it! It's taken an absolutely beautiful edge, but I think it would benefit from being just slightly softer. I get the feeling it could chip quite easily.

Yep, fair enough. Some files are harder than others, though. But if you feel that the edge is fragile, temper away.

A good book, if you can track it down, is Wayne Goddard's $50 Knife Shop. It has a lot of useful info about DIY knife-making using common stuff you can pick up easily.

After that read How to make knives by Richard Barney and Robert Loveless. It is considered one of the best books for the backyard knife smith.

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Originally Posted by ben.mid

It's 5 1/2", so right in the middle of your guess. The good news is, it was an 11" file! Good luck with yours. I think I'd struggle with a razor.

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Does that mean you are working on another little beauty out of the other half.
BTW can't wait to see the sheath you mentioned in the original post.

I have to say that I am very impressed. Did you profile it, then grind the edge? Any kydex or simular material in the future for protecting the edge?

I basically gave it a flat grind, then honed the edge to around 20 degrees ish. My Lansky is at work, so it got done on the stones.

Other half will get similar treatment, but not sure what yet.

Sheath is planned in Kydex. Should be funny, if nothing else, as I've never tried making a sheath of any type before. Mind you, that was my first knife, & I was happy enough, so who knows.

Thanks for all the kind words, advice & encouragement.

Right chaps, I'm out the door now & shall be gone for a week or so. Zanzibar here I come!

Have a safe trip Ben! :)

I like everything about that knife, a very fine job :rock:
Amund.

Very nice! And very creative.
Mighty fine work!!

That turned out amazingly well. It's not often that you see someone's first "file knife" actually look good. This one does. That knife makes me want to use it.

Excellent work, very, very nice knife. I love to see the original file edges left in.

Ive often toyed with the idea of making a razor from a file without the hardening step but maybe locally anneal tang to get the hole in??

Theoreticaly this should be possible but may need to go into the oven for an hour or two to draw back the hardness??

Great work, keep it up. Have you had a go at making a razor?

Traditionally, a blacksmith would leave some file teeth showing on a knife (spine or ricasso) to show that the blade was made from good steel. What was that, an old autobody file?

It's long enough that someday you might be tempted to use it for a pry-job. Tempering a little is good advice.

It really does need an hour in the oven, but I've not done anything else with it yet. It's definitely too hard at the moment!

Having a go at a knife is one thing, a razor quite another. There's a far greater degree of delicacy involved in any razor I'd be interested in making. I'll leave that to the experts.

I've no idea what it was, Mike. I just turned it out of my grandfathers shed. The old boy has been gone over a decade now, but it's nice to have made something useful from what was pretty much just scrap.

I'll certainly temper it at some point. So many of you guys with a far greater knowledge than I will ever have have suggested that I do that it'd be foolish to disregard. It's just laying around right now, so won't come to any harm till I do.

I'd start with 400 degrees F in a conventional cooker oven for an hour.
My logic is you can always give it an extra hour later if you feel the need.
I think this equates to about 204 in centigrade terms, some like to pack in dry sand to give an even heat. Not sure if that is necessary?

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Originally Posted by Deckard

... some like to pack in dry sand to give an even heat. Not sure if that is necessary?

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It does help especially when you are unsure of the undershoot/overshoot temperature range of the controller around a set point on say, a toaster oven. There will be less swing around the set point in a "bath" of some kind.

First of all great job on your first knife, simply awesome. I would have to agree with the re-tempering of the steel and as a few have stated using dry sand will give you a much more even heat bath.
The one thing I've done and still do when making a file knife is to "soften" the steel before I start working the file. For one it helps save the tools from excess wear but it also aids in making the steel much easier to work, shape, grind etc and it is very easy to do. I leaned from a very old master blacksmith.
What I do is simply heat up the file to a nice "cherry" in my forge (Mine is the traditional coal/charcoal fired hand-built type, I don't like gas furnaces).
Once I get the file to a color I like I quickly drive it into a hot sand bath for slow cooling. I use an old 8 qt cast iron dutch oven that is sitting in a fire pit keeping warm. The file is left in the sand for about 2 hours which is about how long it takes to be able to handle the file.
Once you've finished your work you simply re-temper your new knife either by forge and oil quenching or kiln/oven treading.
I like doing things the old school way just because I enjoy it so much. Don't get me wrong I also use high tech equipment for some things.
One last thing, you can actually get the right color steel simply using charcoal and a standard grill it just takes longer (about 1.5 beers timing).
My forge is a poor mans 19.00 home built special but that's a story for another time.