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Well it isn't really a full blown attempt, more like seeing what works and what doesn't. I don't have any type of grinder so after reading the knife forums I decided to try it with a couple of files, and thought I would give the dremel a try.
The dremel didn't work out, it was too hard to get an even grind. The files worked pretty well. I had a look around B&Q for bigger round type files but they didn't have any. So any ideas how I can make BIG grooves without a grinder?
Btw I messed it up and it was only the first stage of grinding/filing. But now I have an idea of how it works :)
Sure ... decide what radius you want for your big hollows and cut a piece of wood to the correct radius. Tape down some sandpaper on the outside of the curve and a lot of arm strength later you'll have a non motorized hollow grind. Change the radius and you'll change the depth of the hollow.
You'll also have a lot more control over the process and many less mistakes. For that matter, you'll have a much better foundation for grinding later if or when, you make the move to a motor grinder. :)
Thanks Mike, that's a really good idea. I suppose that way the choices are endless. I'm going to start again tomorrow and see how it goes, thanks again Mike.
Had another go today, used a hacksaw and some files. Found a bigger file Mike, so didn't need the sandpaper. (Ended up not using it though) I was going to try a japanese type razor with no scales, but kind of messed it up by not cutting it straight. So now my razor has a huge tang :)
I need to do some more filing and whatever else, but so far it seems to be working. It is slow, but it seems to be coming along.
It is looking good so far.
I am just thinking out loud,
1) file to a true wedge
2) rough file hollow
3)sand to radius and blend in using the method Mike suggsted
It is like my shop teacher used to say, "the file is a poor mans milling machine"
Charlie
thats the work order right there if you have not a grinderQuote:
Originally Posted by spazola
it takes time and real work but it can be done for sure
Done some more filing today. It's starting to look better. I have to tidy it up some more and then I'll do what you guys suggested. (Thanks) And then try and heat treat it. It's not that slow doing it, but it is hard work :) But I'm enjoying it so far.
Don't give up! You will learn and build confidence as you go. Above all; Rest when you get tired, put it down when you are frustrated.
Respectfully
~Richard
Thanks Richard. I'm not going to give up yet, even if I mess this one up at some point and have to start again. And it can be frustrating! But I have been resting when it starts to do my head in which does help :) Thanks.
It looks like it is coming along nicely. Thanks for sharing.
-G
I don't know if you have a Sears department store over there, but you can get a wet grinder from them for about $50. They don't have much torque, but they work. I'm fininshing up three razors I'll be sharing with you guys soon...
(I've been on holiday, sorry for the late reply)
I live in the UK so I don't think there's a sears here. They do have other grinders here though but I don't know about buying one yet, thanks though. And I'll look forward to seeing your razors :)Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter74743
I have another question. How do I file it further after HT? Is this possible or do I need a grinder then? Thanks.
After heat treat, the razor will be as hard or harder than a file...so filing is out of the question. The blade should be "finished" except for the hollow. It's all grinding from there and if you get the steel too hot (hotter than you can handle with your bare hands, you can ruin the heat treatment. Keep your fingers close to the work happening at the blade unless you are using a water grinder. With the water grinder, the blade never even gets warm to the touch. Below is the picture of my grinder that has made 6 blades, leaving most of the hollowing to be done after HT. A mistake I have made is that I have gotten the steel too thin before heat treatment and it became wavy or "potato chipped". Talk to the person who is doing the heat treating and see what they recommend as a minimum thickness and go from there.
Attachment 54076
I haven't used a grinder so far, just files. I'm not far from finishing but don't want to buy a grinder just to finish it after the HT. So I was wondering if Mike's suggestion would work after HT? Maybe I do need a grinder to finish it? Sorry if these questions seem stupid. Thanks for the replies!
And I left the edge at about 2mm thick.
If MikeBlue has made a suggestion, go with it and don't second guess it. That man is a encyclopedia of knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren T
I'm not sure where you are with the razor, but to hollow the razor you will need a way to grind the hollow. Files will not work after heat treatment. My way is a cheap way as I don't have one of those nice belt grinders.
No questions is stupid...only the one not asked.
Welcome...
It's looking really good so far! You've got a nice thing going there. Can't wait to see the finished result. :gl:
I am thinking of buying a bench grinder. I seen one the other day and I was tempted :) They are pretty cheap, but are they safe to use?
Thanks for the comment Catrentshaving, appreciate it.
Just a suggestion based on my limited experience.....
1. Taper and fully finish/polish the tang and the spine before heat treating. They are a bear to do after heat treating.
2. Hollow out the blade, by whatever means, until the edge is somewhere between 1/16"- 1/8" thick. This will reduce the chance of a "wavy" edge after heat treating.
3. Check the evenness of your grinding by honing the blade to see where the bevels are thin or fat. Do this before heat treating.
Hope this helps,
It does help, especially number 3..thanks Randy. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by randydance062449
I love the idea of making a razor this way, time consuming though it may be. I just wonder if hollowing hardened/ tempered steel without a grinder may be a bit of a ball ache (love to see someone achieve this though).
I guess it would have to be as close to finished as humaly possible before ht. Decarb can be a b*****d "don't go to thin at the edge before ht.
Good luck
Darren,Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren T
I to am from the UK and the bench grinders you refer to are fine to hollow out the blade before ht, keep an eye on the thickness of the edge. To be on the safe side I'd go to about the thickness of a pound coin, maybe a little less. Also even out the edge regularly during the grinding on a coarse hone to see where the bevel is thick, this will indicate where you need to remove more steel.
These grinders are typically to fast to hollow finish after ht, as the edge gets thin it will pick up a lot of friction heat and potentially cause the edge to lose it's temper:mad:. If the steel goes a light straw (brown) colour you may get away with it the slightly softer edge depending on your temper. If it goes blue, sorry mate you have shit it:rofl2:. I know it is in theory possible to do this on a bench grinder cos I've seen some trippy stuff skilled toolmakers do where I work on bench grinders.
Bob Allman has recomended a wrist band soaked in ice water to heat sink the back of the blade during the final grind, I'm not sure if this would work on a bench grinder with RPM greater than 1800, Im sure a few have tried.
I've pondered this and the only solution I'm comfortable with is to buy or build a belt grinder with a means of varying the speed of the belt.
Feel free to PM me or call if you would like to chat.
Admire the attitude
Good luck
Joey:rock:
Darren T.
Stay at it and don't get to frustrated. I envy guys like you. I work in a machine shop and have for 20 plus years and in a tool and die shop for a good while, I have only just decided to make a blade. Well... I decided to make a blade some many years ago. I have only just started because I was always worried it would not be Ummm... Perfect. I have made machine knives for different types of machinery and shardened knives up to 100 inches, but only just recently decided to have a go at it. I have a dirk and a fixed straight in process now.
So, stay at it. Oh yeah a bench grinder is not that dangerous if you understand that it will put out an eye or eat a finger in less than a heartbeat. You determain how safe the machine is.
Go be safe. Go slow and go find a smith in your area, ask if you can watch and learn.
Deckard those are some good sugestions.
Jeff
I just won one of those grinders on Ebay! I tried one that Geezer has ( with a 3" wheel) and fell in love with it. A 170 rpm wet grinder with a 5" 180 grit wheel. It really does a nice job on an old Sheffield wedge. Once I receive mine I will be trying it on some of my handmade 1/4 hollow ( wedge) razors that need finish grinding. Price was right, less than $40 including shipping.Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter74743
You did good on the price, I think new ones run about $50 at sears. Other than being slow, it works great!
Sounds like the one you are getting is a little faster than mine...post a pic when you get it...
I tried to get one of these, can't seem to find a stockist for the UK.
Sears will not ship this item to the UK for some reason.:shrug:
They are found under the title "Wet Grinder" "wet sharpener and they sometimes are available in the UK. You may find one in a Large Home Remodeling, tool and Garden store also.
Here is what you would be looking for:
'bay #400141198047
They may not be made in VAC240 mains power
And on ebay.UK:
130491969219
250783230740
170609252600
Any of these will give you a nice ¼ hollow grind.
Have fun and good luck!
Respectfully
~Richard
