True Wedge!

Dear wise people of the Forge,

I'm in the process of Grinding a razor, i want an absolute true wedge, mirror finish. you can imagine the look i'm going for? I got my profile made out of 1090 w1 steel... i can use a wet grinder, and other grinders but there all round. i was thinking the flat of a belt sander...? really stumped on this...i could take a few years and file it flat...

I'd also like a suggestion about the shoulder style i should use in this case?(a picture would be nice :) )

Thanks,
Nathaniel.

You could use a belt or disk sander for the flats. I do no really think a file would be that bad. With a coarse double cut file and smooth mill file you could file the wedge shape in a weekend or less. You would also need a way to hold the blade, a vise or clamp it to a bench or table.

If you have a true wedge, are you planning on using tape or honing the whole side?

Charlie

Don't have a coarse file but i did use a single, fine cut file but it was slow. I did have to anneal the steel myself, and i dont think i got it as soft as i should have...

i don't want to use tape, i understand using it on a wedge in bad condition. but in my opinion the wedge doesn't need a separate bevel set by tape. i just don't like the idea, i think it takes away from the characteristic of the wedge.

yeah using a tape seems like it would defeat the point of having a true wedge.
plus this way you'll always have a perfect finish on the blade, even though you'd pay for it dearly at the hones.

I'm glad you feel the same as i, i've seen a lot of threads with people taping their wedges. i'm willing to put the time it at the hone. i love the singular, simple look of a wedge. plus if you use tape on a wedge for a long time it ruins them, wedges are simply not meant to be taped.

I know i have a strong opinion about this, but i do understand how tape helps, actually in the case of a full hollow i think tape is often a good idea

anyone have a picture of your wedge shoulder style? love to get an idea how to do it...

thanks

Just a thought, I have used the side of slow wet wheel grinders to get flat surfaces on an old wedge, to remove the knife sharpening ridges that they had.
Just remember to leave the edge at least .06" thick before hardening and tempering.
Respectfully
~Richard

About the idea of the file: my father is a tool and die maker. He make a boot-knife out of D2 using ONLY a file to profile the blade. Moral is, it can be done. If you anneal the steel properly and have a good coarse file, it shouldn't be that bad. I think that you could knock it out in a day or two.

Y'know I've got what I call wedges by Robert Williams, Joe Chandler, Wade & Butcher, Joseph Rodgers & Sons, Greaves & Sons ..... on and on and I've never seen one yet, current or vintage, that didn't have a certain amount of hollow to it. Enough so that the spine and edge are all that come in contact with the hones. Maybe that is what you're talking about ? The kind of wedge we used when I was an ironworker would be impractical as a shaving razor AFAIC. Otherwise they would've been made commercially but I've yet to see one. :shrug:

That is one beautiful wedge you got there, you probably get bbs every time, except under the chin. your probably right that most vintage razors weren't true wedges. But i think i'll like to see if it works, if not the steel is still there if i want to hollow it out latter. i'll be going against the wisdom of all the straight razors makers past and present but hey i'm young i'm supposed to be stupid.

Chuck Norris would shave with that wedge of yours, his beard would make that wedge sing, then chip into peaces.

closes thing to a true wede i have ever seen
http://www.harnerknives.com/wp-conte...DSC05921sm.jpg
http://www.harnerknives.com/wp-conte...DSC05922sm.jpg
http://www.harnerknives.com/wp-conte...DSC05942sm.jpg
that shown i used sand paper to 2500 grit on the flats and crom ox strop to get a nice bright finish
then to make the edge work i used one layer of tape and finished to 8k

Wow, that is beautiful. I have to agree about the taped spine on a wedge. I bought my first wedge a few months back and when it came, the person who had honed it used tape and now it looks a wee bit goofy

If you make a perfectly flat wedge, be prepared to use tape for honing. Otherwise you'll be honing forever. And you'd best use multiple layers of tape as well, or possibly a shim. If you don't then you'll get very wide (and possibly uneven) bevels.

There is a reason true wedge are not often (ever?) encountered in the wild. They're very impractical.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 111Nathaniel

That is one beautiful wedge you got there, you probably get bbs every time, except under the chin. your probably right that most vintage razors weren't true wedges. But i think i'll like to see if it works, if not the steel is still there if i want to hollow it out latter. i'll be going against the wisdom of all the straight razors makers past and present but hey i'm young i'm supposed to be stupid.

Chuck Norris would shave with that wedge of yours, his beard would make that wedge sing, then chip into peaces.

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I once shaved with a wood splitting axe. It was a high end fiskars axe belonging to my best friend. His FIL had borrowed it to split wood... on cobblestone flooring. I repaired the edge, and because it was basically a giant wedge with a slighly hollow (quarter hollow I'd say) I took it to my hones after the repair and finished it on my 8000 norton. It passed the HHT :D.

the shave was good, though a bit nervous. The handling was not superior (the handle got in the way a lot), my wrist tired rapidly (the thing weighed 5 pounds or so) and I was aware that if it bounced or sliced, it would go through my jugular without stopping. Still, it was very interesting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I once shaved with a wood splitting axe.

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YIKES!

Charlie

I don't have a proper knifemaker's belt grinder, but a British AJS bandfacer, which uses 6x43 belts, and a horizontal table around 10" by 6". I don't think friction would be significantly increased if you were to make an 1/4" thick extension to screw to the top of the table, under the belt, ground down to a convex section with feather edges at the 6" wide ends. I believe this would give the very slight concavity which makes the original wedges easy to hone.

That's amazing!

I have quite a few wedges in my collection but i doubt any are truly a full wedge, +1 on what Bruno has said, if you make a full wedge be prepared to either use a lot of tape or a shim, I can speak from personal experience, I have recently made a true wedge, and boy did it take some honing. Even if your belt sander back plate looks pancake flat i think you will still have slight high and low spots on the blade which will get magnified at the bevel if you understand what i mean. Remember you will have to remove hardened treated steel from the whole blade face before you can start to refine the edge, and as to the 'bevel' angle, which is pretty critical for a good shave, you will have to calculate your spine thickness and blade width wisely. You would probably have to lap both blade faces flat after final grinding to achieve a truly flat wedge which would (after some time) hone without tape successfully. As for shoulder profiles I am limited to the wide drum of my belt sander and playing around with my dremel which can be real fun. Good luck with the project!!