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Hey everyone!
Im about to craft my own straight razor blade. I don't have access to a sander so unfortunately i am doing it by hand and can not achieve a hollow grind. Considering this is my first blade I figured a scandi grind would be a good entry to do by hand with files and some sand paper.
Anyway, does anyone know of the optimal angle for this type of grind?
Also what type of files do you recommend? Brand? Series of coarse to fine?
Thanks so much.
Ryan
It is possible to do a hollow grind with files. Somewhere I saw a kamisori being ground by hand, It may be worth looking into.
One of our members did a wedge blade by hand, It looked like a lot of work...
Good luck and sorry I couldnt help with your questions!
16 degrees plus minus a degree or two is a good angle for cutting hair.
Charlie
These are knife grinds you are discussing
Attachment 102151
If you note the geometry of a straight razor you will see the grinds are designed to help with the honing aspect
The straight razor - Straight Razor Place Wiki
Keep in mind I think I have actually seen two True wedges, ever :) and they are really not fun to hone I think the Scandinavian grind might be even harder :shrug:
There is a Japanese tool for Hollow Grind cuts by hand and I am drawing a total blank as to the name :hmmm: one of the other guys will think of it I am sure... It is a type of scraper
I am assuming you are already a straight razor shaver, the best thing would be to study the razor(s) you have now and emulate their designs first.. then eventually branch out into new design ideas
Not Dissin,but I cannot imagine why anyone would attempt to craft a straight razor with hand files:shrug:
I would imagine the satisfaction would be just as great as creating anything with your hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
A razor would be an extra special chore I suppose......
I think it might take a pretty good while. Might require more skill than doing it with power tools ...... certainly more patience.
Nah! Just pack a good lunch, breakfast, and dinner. A dozen MRE's will fill in! Get it on........TomQuote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
I agree with the patience needed!
One thing with hand tools is a mistake is far less likely to be fatal. [Both to you and your work. :)]
With power tools if you have an OOOP's chances are you are going to have to start over.
That would be a Sen. Different ones are used on all sorts of grinds. Even on wood saws.Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Is very difficult to get all symetrical by hand,from a steel blank, with files,If one were to succeed it would indeed be a great acomplishment.
many fine old clocks I work on have hand cut gears and plates,many fine old flintlock riflles were made in that fashion.
If I were to make a razor from scratch,by hand, with no machine tools or grinders,I think it would take at least a year to do so, to make it perfect in all aspects.maybe alot longer.
+1 and that if the artisan doing the job had a crackerjack skill set IMHO. A good buddy of mine apprenticed as a machinist back 40 years ago. He worked for some old guys that had him take a piece of brass and a file or two and the assignment was to make that hunk of brass a perfect square. He said it was about the hardest thing he ever did but he learned quite a bit from the doing of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelfixed
Go For It!! Nothing ventured, nothing gained. My first knives were made without power tools and they are bigger and have more steel to move than razors. My razors were made with a Multitool attachment on a bench grinder. It is a learning experience and will help you decide if you want to continue, and if so, what machinery would best suit you and is not just trendy. i know what i need for my style and am now in the process of building custom equipment. Anyone can do the same thing.
For knives i used Magicut files, Bastard and milling files and then waterstones on the bevels and wet/dry paper on the rest. Another way to move a lot of steel quickly is to forge it. A couple of firebricks and a small torch and gas bottle and you're away. This can be a lot quicker than filing, is lots of fun, and can get the bevels started. If you secured a piece of raound bar to whatever you use for an anvil you could even forge in your hollows (think as in fullering a knife or sword blade}. Try looking up Wayne Goddard's $50 knifeshop and you can see how cheap and easy you can get a basic set up, including "the world's smallest forge". It'll work fine for a razor.
Just my 2 cents worth but you gotta follow your dream.
Enjoy.
Adam
I've made knives in the past using mostly hand tools. It's A LOT of hard work! But the work is very rewarding. Go for it and have fun.
The primary advantage of doing metal removal by hand is the control. It's much easier to make a mistake with a high speed tool. Then, after working with hand tools for a while, when you are ready, advancing to the high speed tool is simply more efficient because you've learned how to remove metal in a more controlled way.
I can't remember far enough back to recall if I discussed this option here before. But you could do most of your shaping with files and sen, then cut a wooden block with the correct radius for the hollow grind you want. Figure a way to fix sandpaper to the circumferential surface and the block to your bench, and you have the proper shape to remove everything that isn't a nicely radiused hollow. It will smooth out surface of the curve.
Conversely, a hand held block with the correct radius and the steel fixed to a vise or bench.
I've even seen this sort of "round platen jig" attached to a grinder that only had a flat platen because the owner couldn't afford a round contact wheel or the grinder would not take one. Hope the written image comes through, I don't have any pictures.
I think filing and hacksawing the tang would not be that hard. Filing the hollows would be a bear but is doable.
- file a triangle/wedge
- hollow out, filing lengthwise with a half round file
- use a wooden block with the right radius as a sanding block (like MIke said)
- get large Popeye arms from all the filing
Here is a pic of a curved platen. I ground several razor razors on that thing. It is nicer than files but not as nice as a revolving contact wheel.
Charlie
Attachment 102188
Wow! Another Charlie custom grinder. Do you still ever use this one?
It is a factory made 1x42 grinder, I still use it, but not with the curved platen.Quote:
Originally Posted by skipnord
Charlie
Thank You, Charlie!Quote:
Originally Posted by spazola
I'm happy to know it's only Halfzheimer's disease and hasn't gone All-The-Way yet. :)
After heading all of this I think I'm coming down with a little Parttimers. Doing all that you have planned by hand is a gargantuan task. it wears me out just setting a bevel. Good luck and keep us up to date on your successes.
Wow! what a great idea! Charlie! I have access to a few grinders with a flat platen at my school so maybe i can talk someone into letting me rig it up! haha
The filing technique makes sense but I cant to maintain a ricasso so I am not sure if using a round file to make a hollow grind would work
You could create the hollow with a sen. I made one myself for pofiling kitchen knives.
If you have a sen with a belly, you could carve out the hollow and it would be much faster than using files.
The only problem is that you won't find one anywhere. People who use a sen typically make them themselves..
I recently forged one for profiling kitchen knives, but haven't gotten around to finishing the handles and uploading pics.
I followed this example, though mine is obviously less elegant.
http://www.dfoggknives.com/photogall.../makingsen.htm
Without a sen, I would opt for filing the stock triangular, and then using 40 grit sandpaper for metal, wrapped around a piece of drain pipe or other object with a convenient radius.
