Hammer Time!

Only 48 hours to go before this jedi sets out on the long journey to study at the feet of Master Zowada. Just finished sanding and polishing, and re-handled an old cross peen my dad had in a box of bold broken hammers.

Which made me wonder.. What size/style hammers do you other razor makers prefer to use when forging?

This one is about 44 oz, and the face is now a near mirror (I know it wont stay that way, but I wanted to start off with a clean face so to speak) Nearly flat, with the edges softly rolling up.

Would love to hear some opinions, so I can maybe grab a few more before I head up.
Attachment 132417

I forge not, but do use modern hammers in my work. Upon your purpose, I think an old-school with a hickory handle would be best. It seems that your choice would be good and the face is remarkably pristine!
Best of luck and may you gain the skills you desire under Tim! Enjoy! :tu

it certainly was not pristine when I started on it! My dad was hard on his tools. :mace:

I do not know what kind of hammer I prefer, I keep changing them. I have the other HAD HammerAD. I do keep the faces in good shape.

Charlie

Charlie, do you bother to fine finish them? or is that simply overkill? I dont want to waste a lot of time and resources putting a super slick finish on a hammer if it wont last, or causes any problems I am not (yet) aware of. Whats the weight of the lightest hammer you use for moving metal?

I smooth them out and buff them once, but I do not maintain that type of finish. They get banged up with use.

I do not know the exact weight of my hammers, my guess would be most are in the 2 - 3 pound range.

Charlie

I will post pics later today. Just wanted to say that it is important that the flat bit is not actually flat or even 'nearly' flat.
Of course it depends of your definition of 'nearly'. :)

If you have a rounded hammer and you strike the workpiece not 100% true, the impact surface will still be correct because the rounding will balance the twisting of the hammer surface. It's kind of like when you throw a ball to the wall, it will always hit the wall true because no matter how much it turns, the impact area is still true. With a flat hammer otoh, you will punch divots in the workpiece.

Plus, with a rounded hammer, the initial surface area touching the piece is smaller, and you will move a lot more metal because pressure = force / surface area.

Thanks Bruno, pics would be great! Its not too late for me to rework at least one hammer to a "rounder" face if necessary.

What you say is exactly what I was thinking when I restored the face on the crosspeen. Hence "near" flat. But with no actual idea what to shoot for, I could only go with my imagination, which may include the belief that I will have enough control to work within the tolerance I have set in that very slight radius! :w

Hammers come in all sizes. It is no leap of logic to figure that the heavier hammers will move more metal. One of my smithing friends likes to refer to the "ground hammer interface," as the weakest variable in the process. The heavier hammer will get harder to lift as the arm wears out. A heavy head can be more difficult to control. It's possible for strong man to use a 25lb hand hammer, but he won't do it all day. Starting early in the day with a 4 lb hammer, moving to a 3 lb, then 2 lb, then 1 lb is not unreasonable as the heavy work leads to lighter/thinner work requiring less hammer because you don't want big dents in a thin piece of razor or knife stock. Your arm will like this progression better.

I would recommend looking up Uri Hofi, as a starting point. There are professional and youtube videos and books. His ergonomic methods are sound. The idea is that if you become addicted to hammering, you might want to do so in a way to keep hammering the rest of your life. Look closely at his recommendations for the length of handle and grip.

Mike, your words are of iron, and my arms are of ice. Solid enough when you look at them, but break easy when you put pressure on them, and melt to a puddle when heated up!
The 44 oz is the heaviest hammer I have, as it was the highest point at which I still felt comfortable swinging. Driving punches and chisels with a hammer you cant control leads to broken hands, so I assumed the same problems apply to forging!

This one is a short handle (12") and weighs in at 28oz face is also slightly rounded, but the edges have far less of a radius. Attachment 132442

Too much of a rounded face will produce "dents" in what you are forging. Too flat, and the hammer is very unforgiving if you don't hit square. Not enough rounding on the edges will produce ugly dents if you don't hit square. There is a sweet spot as far as the shape of the head of your hammers, coupled with your level of experience forging. I have two hammers I made at a workshop that I need to do some reshaping on. And, hammers can be (are?) a personal thing to every smith.

A heavy hammer is not the problem, the ground hammer interface needs time, practice, exercise. If you keep at it your arm will strengthen, but strength is not necessarily control. The heavy hammers work harder on the elbows, think tennis elbow, because your grip has to be stronger to control the rotation of the handle when the head hits.

To paraphrase Uri, work smarter, not harder, watch a very experienced smith. Some of the best smiths I know are not the typical giant muscular fellows depicted in poetry. They let the hammer work and merely direct the effort.

The grip is looser, the hammer simply falls into the work and the only grip is just enough to control the face of the hammer. There is not a lot of eccentric motion in the hammer handle. That snap that guys driving nails use is not what I like to see in smithing. The more wrist motion, the further the grip is away from the head, the more I can predict that elbow is going to be shot in no time at all. Guys who look like they are trying to crush the material are working too hard and wear out too fast.

My hope is to one day let the hammer fall to the work, and merely need to assist it in its return to its upright position. Letting rebound energy do most of the heavy lifting. I know this will take lots of time and practice, but its a worthy goal to shoot for!

Cmon guys, Lets see some photos of your favorite mashie niblics!

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Originally Posted by Mike Blue

A heavy hammer is not the problem, the ground hammer interface needs time, practice, exercise. If you keep at it your arm will strengthen, but strength is not necessarily control. The heavy hammers work harder on the elbows, think tennis elbow, because your grip has to be stronger to control the rotation of the handle when the head hits.

To paraphrase Uri, work smarter, not harder, watch a very experienced smith. Some of the best smiths I know are not the typical giant muscular fellows depicted in poetry. They let the hammer work and merely direct the effort.

The grip is looser, the hammer simply falls into the work and the only grip is just enough to control the face of the hammer. There is not a lot of eccentric motion in the hammer handle. That snap that guys driving nails use is not what I like to see in smithing. The more wrist motion, the further the grip is away from the head, the more I can predict that elbow is going to be shot in no time at all. Guys who look like they are trying to crush the material are working too hard and wear out too fast.

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Mike is a smart man, I went from good elbow to tennis elbow in a short period of time. I have been unlearning my bad hammering habits. I have learned a lot from more experienced smiths. I wish I would have started out watching and learning from more experienced smiths, instead of flailing away.

Charlie

I spent a day at the forge learning all I could. The instructors checked out my hammers, and said the faces were really well done. Smaller hammer is for punching square holes, and not actually for forging. I figured out very quickly that the larger hammer is too heavy for me at this time. I simply do not have good control of it. I need to customize the handle, and try again. The instructor used it for a while, and deemed it a really good tool, with excellent rebound characteristics.
If you want to look at what I made, check out the post in "The Conversation" Bitching and Moaning!
I tried really hard to watch my form and posture. The blisters are already forming! :cry:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Magpie

I figured out very quickly that the larger hammer is too heavy for me at this time. I simply do not have good control of it.

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How much does it weigh, and how do you hold it?
If you hold the end of the handle, your are swinging it using wrist and lower arm muscles, which will tire you quickly.
I've also noticed that many older smiths use handles that are thinner than regular handles. Especially heavy modern hammers seem to have thicker handles. Trimming them down might help too because thicker handles means the fingers are opened wider, and more 'squeeze' is needed to keep the hammer from flying away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruno

How much does it weigh, and how do you hold it?
If you hold the end of the handle, your are swinging it using wrist and lower arm muscles, which will tire you quickly.
I've also noticed that many older smiths use handles that are thinner than regular handles. Especially heavy modern hammers seem to have thicker handles. Trimming them down might help too because thicker handles means the fingers are opened wider, and more 'squeeze' is needed to keep the hammer from flying away.

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Absolutely correct Bruno! This hammer is about 40-44 oz and the handle is far to thick at the mid where I need to grasp it. The teacher also suggested thinning the handle where I hold it, and taking the "round" out of it so I wont need to grasp with as much force to prevent twisting. The teacher used my hammer for a bit, and he loved it, but said he would do these things for it even with his larger hands. I must admit, it makes me feel better knowing that even a full time smith with better grip and larger hands than I felt it was in need of "adjusting" (its not just me!) ;)