Sharp
Smooth
Buttery
Harsh
I have read them a lot but never thought much about them and their relation to the edge. Are there two words too many?
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Sharp
Smooth
Buttery
Harsh
I have read them a lot but never thought much about them and their relation to the edge. Are there two words too many?
Hi bill,Quote:
Originally Posted by WW243
Here is what I understand them to mean:
Sharp - kind of self explanatory,
Smooth - sharp and cuts hair without leaving irritation/ discomfort,
Buttery - not really sure, poss glides over the face, sort of super smooth,
Harsh - sharp but uncomfortable, a freshly honed razor that is really sharp can be like this, but after a few shaves it mellows and becomes smooth.
I'm with Ed, only I think harsh does not necessarily mean sharp. Harshness, as far as I know, is caused by microscopic teeth at the edge. The size and shape determine how much of your skin is scraped off, which causes the harsh feeling.
Coticule edges are often called buttery, but they are not the sharpest. I once had an edge felt dull, yet was sharp enough for a good shave. One of the best edges ever, because it felt so nice on my skin. Don't remember how exactly I honed it.
Yes, I think Ed's got it covered fairly accurately, I'd describe buttery exactly that way...super smooth and glides over the face.
Ed,
First at the scene of the crime! Ed, do you think a harsh shave can leave the face more smooth than a buttery shave? Is this why some old timers make the switch from BBS with 3 passes to a 2 pass comfortable shave? Ok, here is my take on the language:
sharp= you do a TPT and your thumb bleeds and you cry
smooth= you do a TPT and notice that your thumb bleeds but you don't know how it happened
buttery= must be the convergence of the perfect prep, perfect cushioning lather and a properly honed blade that you have wielded enough times to know your face without a GPS
Harsh= The words that the old lady uses when you have been in the bathroom for 2 hours shaving
I teach music for a living, so if anything, I think we need some more subjective words to describe our edges..... hhmmmm lets go with 'creamy' .... yeah that's it, isn't it awesome when you get a great shave from a creamy edge
;)
Might create some conflicts with the lathering language.....Quote:
Originally Posted by ecormier
Ok so a musical term for smooth is 'legato'.... that edge is sooo legatoQuote:
Originally Posted by WW243
Buttery as defined by some on-line dictionary: "Marked by effusive and insincere flattery."
So buttery as I see it should be a nice smooth shave where the blade passes through your whiskers as though it was a hot-knife going through butter... all the while your blade is whispering sweet nothings to you in effort to have you use said blade again tomorrow.
:).
I only have two descriptions :)
Honed Correctly
Honed Wrong
I like the first one :p
It's because of things like this that people wonder why I'm laughing and shaking my head while looking at my phone...Quote:
Originally Posted by WW243
Haha, this is awesome. :beer2:Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
I thought you always say "smoooooooth" in your videos?Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurens
That would fall under "Honed Correctly" and more importantly "Used Correctly" see how simple it really is :D
The unvarying velvety, mirrorlike, uniform and frictionless shaving experience was incredibly smooooooooth.
Subcategories? Talk about making things complicated!Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
I think Ed has it right too, however I'd lump buttery and smooth together to mean the same thing. I do feel that different steels can lend themselves to slightly different feels on the face; even when honed correctly. I do feel some of my razors (W&B Special) tends to be more smooth (or buttery) when honed correctly than, say, my Burrell Top Flight, which tends to feel LESS smooth. Though not especially harsh it still feels less smooth than the W&B. Both will be sharp when honed correctly and readily cut hair. Of course, I'm no honing expert. It'd be interesting if an expert honer could hone all (quality) razors to feel as smooth and buttery as each other; of if the different steels may in fact sill make some feel less smooth than others.
I guess one could say some passages of a Beethoven symphony are more harsh than other smoother passages yet are still composed correctly.
To me buttery explains an edge that when you shave it feels like the blade is almost soft. That is the only way I can explain it.
You're never going to get a useful agreement on definitions of these words from an edge point of view - they are completely subjective categories - at best they may be ordinal but even that is arguable.
Even if it were possible to come up with working definitions that everyone agreed on for the words describing an edge, we then have the issue of how each person's skin type, beard type, cream, prep, stretching, technique etc interact with that edge so we can work back to what the edge is like off the hone. It's a losing battle, but as history has shown it's a lot of fun fighting it. :)
I'd even go a bit more direct than Glen (although I think he hit the nail directly on it's head) and say the edge shaves properly or it doesn't since, in the end, that's why we are doing what we are doing here. I'd even go so far as to say that until your technique is down to a reasonable level you really have no business worrying about a honed edge (as long as that edge was honed professionally).
I know that last statement is a bit controversial, but the way I look at it is: do you think the Renault Formula 1 pit crew would prefer to hear what I have to say about the handling of their race car, or what Mark Webber has to say?
Just some food for thought.
James.
Sounds like you are saying we need a standard face. Perhaps whoever has it could supply standard hairs for HHT's
Jimbo said ordinal, is that anything like a cardinal in the Western Hemisphere?
He is a maths professor I think, I reckon it's a maths thing for brainards :)
No it means like mundane, run of the mill, standard. Like, 'Ed is very ordinal'...Quote:
Originally Posted by WW243
Piss off stumpy :)Quote:
Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider
Is it not that we are all different? after all honed correctly on what? 8k 12K 30K, Natural, man made, followed by nothing or pastes?
So I can agree our razors need to be honed correctly but to what degree? Seems we all like something different, some shave from a 8k and love it some need much more, some love a hollow grind some love a extra hollow grind, some like carbon steel some like Inox. Our faces are different as are our razors? I think they are….
For me buttery is the relief a newly sharpened razor brings to a face that has been shaved for a while with a sharp razor that doesn't pull but isn't just right. Some just glide better than others, those are buttery.
I don't have a lot of experience but I already know that there are ferrari's and Mini's, but the price isn't the important thing its the feeling the razor gives us each and every day, to some the mini is the business to others its the Ferrari.
James recently honed two razors for me, Before he did it I had my favourite, after he honed, they both were equally sharp and smooth but one was definitely buttery to me. It's still my favourite.
Just my opinion so far.
Fair call...Quote:
Originally Posted by edhewitt