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I've been a SR shaver since February of this year and can honestly say that I haven't been so enthused by something since I was a boy. One of the things that has interested me recently is the number of new razor makers there are, especially in the US and Germany; this does lead me to wonder however if there is enough of an existing consumer base to support these wonderful people, and IF there will be a new generation of SR shavers to replace them?
IMO. I believe shavers are realizing how expensive disposables are becoming. As for a straight you spend the money one time and have it for a lifetime. You can go expensive with a new straight. I prefer the vintage razors. I pick them up on eBay (yes eBay) at a low price. Put a little time and muscle into restoring it. Hone and enjoy. Most of my razors are 150 years old. Have been used by who knows who. May have been all around the country or world. They still have several lifetimes of shaves in them.
Interesting question. I don't think shaving with a straight razor will ever be more than a niche market. It has been a growing niche market and razor makers are scrambling to meet the new demand. The market will eventually stabilize and at that point you may see a number of makers drop out because of over supply to market size. Until then enjoy the new resurgence.
Bob
Yes, do believe the Straight Razor market is a limited market, just because for a lot of folks, it is just too much work.
I hone a lot of razor for new guys and many switch to double edge, just for the convenience, my son is one of them. For many of the instant gratification generation, it is the learning curve that puts them off.
A double edge, you just pop in a new blade and go, the shave is almost the same. But like the fountain pen, custom car, or even bespoke coffee drinking markets, there will always be a limited market for high end hand-made works of art that can be shave with daily.
For many, it is the process as much as the end result, and not unusual for an aficionado of one, to appreciate the bespoke aspect of other tools for daily chores. So it is more of a lifestyle or mind set, than practicality.
Personally I too prefer vintage, and older the better. I do admire some of the new razor makers, but there were some beautiful vintage razors that were made in the thousands, and are readily available. This morning I will shave with a hundred-year-old, ivory scaled razor, that will shave as well as the day it was made.
You can still buy a pristine, NOS or restored vintage razor, for much less that a new custom, and that, will impact the custom new razor market.
Most custom razor makers also make knives, that probably support the razor market. So it really is a quality issue, and as long as a custom razor maker can turn out quality and aesthetics, at a price the market will support, there will always be a limited market.
The 'Instant Gratification Generation', part of the reason I actually enjoy getting older (40's) is that I can look at the some of the younger generation with a healthy measure of contempt!
I don't see SR shaving going away, ever. I don't think it will ever be mainstream, as it once was. Let's face it, you gotta be pretty hard headed to go through the huge learning curve of wet-shaving with a SR. There are just to many easy alternatives.
Straight razor shaving lost it's grip on the masses with King Camp Gillette's invention of the "disposable bladed safety razor" which he began marketing in 1903. The lure of cheap, sharp and disposable blades (no more paying the local barber to hone their straights and trying to make it last as long as possible) made it very attractive to the average man, who simply wanted to get the ordeal of shaving over with as quickly, and cheaply as possible.
The more affluent could afford to have the barber visit them in their own home or stop by the barber on their way to work and have the barber shave them. There were a significant number of men who still used a straight razor up until around the 1950s, but that is when the DE safety razor took over the market.
Today, only those few that are willing to endure the ordeal of learning and practicing not only shaving, but maybe also honing straights, will be the market for such items.
Considering this is THE forum Straight Razor Shaving, and it has the entire world before it.... there's not that many of us, but we appear to be willing to part with hard earned $$$, something that has not gone unnoticed, and fuels the resurgence of traditional style shaving gear, soaps and creams. Today's "Above The Tie" razors, as an example, would never sell in the 1950s, and Maestro Livi's razors would meet a similar fate as most folks just did not have that kind of disposable income, if they could even find such a luxury item.
Thankfully, the Internet came along and made it so much easier for us to congregate and share our knowledge and ideas. I remember when I found SMF. I was behind the curve at the time, but back then.... even DE blades were hard to come by.... there were maybe a 1/2 dozen different blades to be had.... then, once again thanks to the Internet, we all found each other and locally produced and used DE blades became available to anyone around the world (thank you Postal Union).
Right now, it seems the majority of straight razor users are in the upper end of the age group.... I think there may be a few new young users that will come along, but as the electronics and personal computers evolve, I suspect there will be another downward trend in the number of users.
So.... I think some of the new razor makers will find it difficult to make a living, making straight razors, down the road, but there will always be a small market for exclusive shaving products, just like in the 18th and 19th century... only without the real ivory.
Regards
Kaptain "Retro grouch and pessimist" Zero
It wasn't actually bad shaves but the desire to be rid of waste that started me down this path (I had also had enough of dishing out hard won pennies to Mr Gillette and Wilkinson (or whoever had the best offer on at the time)). I think there was an article online that I read that led me to think 'if it worked then, it must work now', plus the prospect of never having to buy those bloody awkward - to - open packs of expensive cartridges was enough of an incentive to want to learn. The savings and feel good factor came later. I also enjoy the fact that my boys actually watch me shave now, something they weren't that interested in before, and I love my wife's response each time I tell them: "yes son, daddy will teach you how to shave" Her words are not repeatable here. So hopefully, in these more quality oriented times, there will be an increasing number of like minded individuals who will come to appreciate the experience. Who knows.
There was a recent article in Outside magazine about the resurgence of SR's and Dovo mentioned how their production has shot up due to demand.
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Holy Cow - just found an article from, "The Telegraph", in the UK, talks about a guy trying straight shaving, and he's used Lynn Abram's video tutorial in it....we all knew Lynn was a star!!!
A close shave: my cut-throat razor disaster - Telegraph
Laughed at this line, we're awesome:
"While there is no more authentically manly act than shaving with a straight razor, the downside is that the straight razor also turns the most repetitious act of grooming of all – the wet shave – into a chess-match with death."
A day without a chess-match with death is a day wasted. That's my mantra.:cool:
A chess match with death! Holy smoke is that what str8 shaving means to the blissful male masses? Still from time to time the movies will show a man with a faceful of lather waiving a straight razor in the air.
It takes an appreciation of tradition and a rejection of the multibladed plastic contraption kept under lock and key at the pharmacy to motivate one's entry into the historic world of wet shaving with a straight. It will be a highly pleasurable experience when guided by experienced men whom have journeyed before.
So I think others will follow into our chess match. The reward out weighs the risk. Any thanks to those for the encouragement given to me to enter upon the journey.
:lurk:
I read this several months ago, very funny piece but I think a healthy dose of exaggeration was employed to comedic effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrank
It is nice to see a growth in wet shaving supplies online...including new producers of straight razors. I think it is basic economics...supply and demand. Right now there is a demand so the supply is growing to meet that demand. I think, however, there are limits to growth. My sense is that traditional wet shaving with a SR is more for the older guys who do it in part for the nostalgia of it all. There are some young guys...but truthfully most of the young guys I know prefer not shaving at all...or prefer the convenience and safety of a cartridge razor. SR shaving is and likely always be a niche market...albeit a growing niche market. Just like in any growth area there will be new producers and as competition gets tough, some will drop out of the marketplace.
I prefer vintage SRs. I have around 30+ vintage...and one new SR. Even the restored vintage market I notice is growing. I prefer antique store hunting, restoring and honing my own. But for me that is my hobby...it is as much part of the journey as the satisfaction of a great shave on a SR that looked like it was ready for the trash heap.
Interesting thread...thanks for posting. I enjoyed reading everyone's comments.
I expect the reasons for the 'new' interest in SR's will be as many and as diverse as the number of users. There will no doubt be the older chaps who like to reminisce, the younger set that want to attain a particular image of their choice, and the Eco-minded type that views disposables as anathema. While I'm not an Eco-warrior I do subscribe somewhat to the latter category (I'm certainly no Daniel Craig). I have been impressed most by the approach taken by PRC, I think their branding and use of social media is absolutely spot on, and I for one will be watching how they progress with interest.
Here is the outside magazine link:
https://www.outsideonline.com/211645...-start-package
Quote from Outside Magazine:
[About ten years ago,] we were producing less than 8,000 straight razors per year, says Jens Zeitvogel of Dovo Solingen, which has been making straight razors for 110 years. The tradition of straight razor manufacturing had almost come to an end. Now, the brand has orders for 110,000 products. Lead time for production is three years long.
Even those seeming impressive current production numbers from Dovo would seem extremely weak compared to the large number of producers output in various countries in the 1930s through 1950s. At least this niche segment of wet shaving is healthier now than before.
Bob
It's headed in the right direction however. I cannot believe that with a little education and a lot of savvy those numbers cannot be improved upon.
Yup, those numbers are likely to improve but you will never convince a huge chunk of the literally billions of males out there that shave to go with a straight razor.Quote:
Originally Posted by TomP30
Bob
.5% of a billion is a much larger number than 100% of a million......Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
True enough. Let me rephrase that and say by huge chunk I mean a majority. Anyway there is room to grow, just have to see if it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by 32t
Bob
I was agreeing with you and my point was meant to mean that there can be growth in numbers with a decline in percentage.Quote:
Originally Posted by BobH
Straight razor users can be a growing group and still be a dying breed.
Depends on how you want to spin it.
I am currently 19 I first started shaving with straight razors when I was 16. The thing that got me into it was my Fascination for sharp objects and the fact that I was relatively good at making things really sharp. I currently have some 60 or so friends that shave with straight razors I currently hone most of their razors and I know that some of their reasons involve saving money, Fascination for sharp objects, family heritage, attempting to preserve a lost skill, and some have a Fascination for life in the past. Straight razor shaving I believe is a currently growing Market and for good reason.
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I almost forgot to mention that these 60 or so people are people that I graduated high school with.
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To me, it seems about same as vintage motorbikes.
Only so many old farts and hipsters out there. :D
I don't think anyone would argue that currently it is a growing market but will never be close to being mainstream ever again. Just how big it does get is anybody's guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron1234
Bob
I've certainly noticed a large increase in numbers. Even the antique dealers in my area have said it. 5 years ago they couldn't give away straight razors. Now there's so many people putting their names on the list, they are gone before they hit the store shelves. Interesting topic and thread.
When I started just over three years ago, I could hit some local places in Toronto and finds dozens, one shop on Queen St, they had tons of old strops, safety razors, straights the whole deal...and within about 8 months of me starting, the place was stripped bare of everything, and the lady who I came to know was on it like Bill Clinton on an intern, and the prices for the mostly low quality stuff she had increased ten fold, and there was no haggling, price was firm.Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigy
And this from the place I went in not weeks before and walked out with an Ibbertson, two Bokers, and an old TI for $25.00 Cdn.....I don't even look anymore unless I'm right there with the wife or something...
I can see the emergence of outback Mike as being the problem....:hmmm:Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigy
I think just like many other things like hobbies the internet has really helped this subject or group with a lot of teaching aides which I never had back in the 70's.
Goes without saying, Joe! Goes without saying :)Quote:
Originally Posted by razorjoe
That, and nobody wants just one or two. They are like phrank, and buy every piece of Sheffield steel over 8/8 they can find lol
Yes!!! And I got a lot of 'em....glad I did!Quote:
Originally Posted by prodigy
Only I had to lower the bar to 7/8, and make the occasional exception for 6/8 as well.....:y
I remember starting out, and quickly thinking the wade and butcher the celebrated for barbers use was a holy grail. I refused to pay the $150-200 they were going for. Now they crack 500 at auction, list for 600-1000 BIN. I even saw one chipped all to hell go for over 400. I don't think those prices are ever coming down, not any time soon anyway.
Well. No more are being made?
Well they will be in South Africa soon.....:DQuote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
There's a thread for that! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrank
.......................:rofl2:Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
These prices of chipped razors are not driven by the daily users. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by prodigy
What!!:dropjaw:Quote:
Originally Posted by Phrank