Str8ts: Health Hazard?

I got a small nick shaving my upper lip today, and I started thinking about this.

How do you clean your razor after you get a nick or otherwise draw blood? Do you do anything differently, or just rinse with hot faucet water as you do after shaving?

How do you clean the used razor you bought through the BST or ebay?

HIV is less of a concern, since the virus really does not survive that long outside of the host. Hepatitis C is more durable, and more concerning. Many Americans with Hep C contracted the infection by sharing needles for IV drug use, or simply by using used hypodermic syringes and needles. More often than not, these were "sterilized" using modalities available at home. Same thing with tattoo parlors years ago, before the scare from these infections led to more attention to health concerns.

When I buy, say a used DE razor, I boil it for a certain amount of time, and that is usually sufficient. Alcohol alone is not. Then again, that's the DE razor. I don't think I'd be comfortable with a used DE blade (assuming it is still sharp, hypothetically), which really would have come in contact with blood, rather than the razor itself.

Unfortunately, most straights cannot be boiled, since the scales will get destroyed. Autoclaving and hospital grade disinfectants like Cidex are not really generally available. Other than that, the kill rate on the Hep C virus is not 100%.

4.1M people in the US today are positive for Hepatitis C. Most are in the 40-49 y.o. age group. Many more are undiagnosed.

Just in case, you may say you've been doing this for years, and have had no problem. Or don't know any who've had one. Remember, the latency of Hep C infection is 20 years.

Don't mean to stir the pot, but just thought I'd throw this in, and see what others' think, and do.

I use my Lysol wipes on everything in my bathroom once a week. No one else uses my stuff, so I don't worry too much.

Plus I get a full blood workup twice a year to make sure nothing shows up to the party.:tu

After I draw my own blood, I don't do anything, I ain't gonna get anything I ain't already got.

When I get a used razor I usually treat it first with a water and soap wash. Then I coat it in a chemical cleaner strong enough to eat rust and tarish right off (MAAS). then it gets scrubbed with a mild abrasive untill a mirror finish is achieved. At this point it is again cleaned with soapy water. Then as a final sterilization step I grind off the old cutting surface and replace it with a fresh one. After this is done the razor is cleanied again, this time with rubbing alcohol, then mineral oil and put into use.

After this entire process I doubt anything will survive.

That's a very good question.

I have a bottle of BARBICIDE that i purchased at a local Sally's Beauty Supply.

I have used Barbicide to "sterilize" DE razors that I have purchased at antique shops, ebay etc.

But I am worried about soaking scales in Barbicide.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/showt...hlight=alcohol

Thanks, for the link, Doc. I agree with your post about alcohol. I will try to get some cidex at work tomorrow, and will use that to disinfect my razors.

Cleaning/sterilizing old razors is a good common sense practice; it's an unknown regarding the measures necessary and time lapse needed for any potentially harmful virus, etc to die and be rendered harmless.

For those that are worried about the potential for transmission of illnesses from old razors (personally I think the possibility of transmission from an antique razor not likely used for years is nil), I don't mean to post this to keep you awake at night, but if anything, shouldn't the worry, if you have worry be about prions rather than bacteria or viruses? CLICK HERE

To kill prions (the cause of Mad Cow, in humans known as CJD) you need a pressurized autoclave to be able to keep the instrument at 274 degrees Fahrenheit for at least 18 minutes. I don't have one of those.

Personally, I'll clean my blades as I normally do and I'm not going to worry about it. Others certainly might though. We're all different.

Odd.....it is a bit contradictory for me to say I'm not worried about prions and my old razors when I haven't eaten beef in 10+ years.

Chris L

I use a very strong solution of Clorox and water mixture. I let it soak for about 5 minutes then I rinse and wash with soap. Will this kill everything, including prions?



Richard

Hi all,
Though I’m still a newbie to straight razors and have yet received my usable new razor in the mail. I thought this was a valid question. So I did a little research. According to the CDC the recommended solution to kill off the Hep C virus is 1:10 bleach compound: 1 part bleach to 10 parts water and let the solution stand for 30 secs. This virus according to the CDC only lasts in the open environment for a max of a 4 days to a week. So there really isn’t that much of a worry.
Resources: http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/hepatitis/c/faq.htm

As I said I’m a total newbie and am thinking to get a used razor or 10 in the future as rotation razors. My first order was a ZeePK kit that I found on E-Bay. The 2 razors I got are nothing more then strop practice razors and new letter openers. So I thought I’d give this solution a test to see if it tarnished the finish. I soaked one in this solution for 45 secs and then cleaned it with soap and water. I don’t see any tarnish or damage to them of any kind.
Wes

Prions come from nervous tissue, so unless someone was using your razor to prepare samples you'll be fine.

It seems to me that diseases from the previous owner should be less of a worry than things picked up in transit or while fixing. Disinfecting before fixing up isn't a bad thing, since you could cut yourself with a razor while restoring but proper hygiene and cleaning cuts when you get them will also keep you safe.

As long as you're not rubbing the razor on the ground or keeping it in an unsanitary place (which would likely be bad for the blade anyway!) you shouldn't worry too much.

Barbercide - mix 1/10 with water to dilute and leave the blade (not scales) in it for 10 minutes.

I dont see the point sterilising scales as they generally wouldnt be in contact with infected cultures. Just a cleanse with warm soap water depending on what material they are.

HCV can't survive outside the human body for more than 2 or 3 weeks. Something like that. So if you isolate the razor/surface for a month (plastic baggie perhaps) or so, you should be good. Then go through the normal sterilization process you would otherwise.

As for items with your own blood, I have a few things I always do as I have something I have no desire to pass on to my significant other or friends/family (damn 80's blood donors!). Actually, I have one thing I do: DO NOT EVER SHARE. Anything. Hunting knives are OK at this point, as I've yet to cut myself, but I share nothing. I'll never sell a straight or brush I've used, toothbrushes stay separate from my girlfriends', etc.

It's really not that hard, as long as you keep in mind what you're dealing with.

The best thing anyone can do, though.....get tested. If you don't know you have something, how can you prevent it's transmission?

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Originally Posted by riooso

I use a very strong solution of Clorox and water mixture. I let it soak for about 5 minutes then I rinse and wash with soap. Will this kill everything, including prions?

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I believe the answer for the prions would be............................no.

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Originally Posted by fazaymin

Prions come from nervous tissue, so unless someone was using your razor to prepare samples you'll be fine.

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Why then is there a scare about BSE transmitting to humans as CJD, a fatal disease, from the consumption of beef?

If a razor cuts flesh deep enough to draw blood, isn't it also severing nervous tissue? :shrug:

I was thinking about this last night since I and probably most everyone else does not have an pressurized autoclave at their disposal......................or do we? What about a pressure canner? I'll have to talk with some who know more about canning than I do, but if a pressure canner can hold temps of 274 Fahrenheit for 18+ minutes, maybe the pressure/temp combo is sufficient to kill the almost unkillable prions? This would be a process for blades only rather than scaled razors. Would 274 Fahrenheit for 20 minutes ruin the temper of a tempered steel blade such as a razor? I wouldn't think so but I know nothing about tempering.

I don't know that I'm concerned enough about taking my own razors to that level of sterilization, but if/when I sell restored razors, maybe others would feel that such a form of sterilization, if it would work and not damage the steel, would be the ultimate in peace of mind?

Chris L

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Originally Posted by Chrisl

Why then is there a scare about BSE transmitting to humans as CJD, a fatal disease, from the consumption of beef?

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The particular concern is from ground beef, as sometimes spine or brain can be ground in. Even when it's not, a less than surgical slaughtering process (which would include even high quality beef) can end up with spinal fluid dumped all over the steak cuts.

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If a razor cuts flesh deep enough to draw blood, isn't it also severing nervous tissue?

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No. Trust me, if you've ever severed a nerve, you'd know. If you did it shaving, you'd probably never want to shave again. (I spent a brief time learning the old sideshow human pincushion routine and hit a nerve a couple of times while piercing my cheek. The result: a searing sensation like an electrical shock all over the left side of my face.) Even still, the small nerve endings that are near the skin (and I'm pretty sure there are no nerves in the skin) wouldn't be carrying pryons, I don't think.


On another discussion board, someone who is a neurobiology researcher formerly at a flagship university did a Q & A on CJE/BES during the first scare a few years ago. Basically, the transmission is fairly difficult, just stay away from ground beef. He also recommended slow cooking beef in a smoker over several days until it's cooked through thoroughly, but it's unclear if this was medical advice or gastronomical advice.

The info currently on bleach as a good means for killing Hep C is still being tested and the minimal tests that have been done seem to show that HCV is much more resistant than other virus, requiring something like a 10 minute soak in 90% NaOCl (bleach) solution. But the bleach commercially available is between 3% and 6%, so it may or may not be effective. Can't hurt though, right.

Anyone know anything about UV light as a means for disinfecting? A quick search shows it's promising, but not specifically for HCV.

Good point though, RayG, you can never be too careful.

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Originally Posted by Chrisl

Would 274 Fahrenheit for 20 minutes ruin the temper of a tempered steel blade such as a razor? I wouldn't think so but I know nothing about tempering.

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Ruin? probably not. You would, in effect be tempering a little bit of the heat treat out of the blade, thus softening the edge to some degree, maybe not noticeable, maybe detrimental, it would depend on how the razor was heat treated in the first place and exactly what the metallurgical composition is.

I wouldn't do it, for the simple reason that leaving it out in the sun (UV exposure) and then bathing in bleach after/during a quarantine period is much less risky.

This subject comes up every 4 months or so.....
And this time I would like to go on record, Anyone who has any razors that they don't feel safe shaving with please PM me and I will promptly dispose of them for you NO COST except shipping one way :)

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

This subject comes up every 4 months or so.....
And this time I would like to go on record, Anyone who has any razors that they don't feel safe shaving with please PM me and I will promptly dispose of them for you NO COST except shipping one way :)

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Glen, I decided to ship all of my razors out to you after giving this some careful thought. You should receive them by the end of the week..........................
















JUST KIDDING!!!!!:roflmao:roflmao:roflmao

Chris L

Seems like people are getting a bit obsessive about this.

Worried about Prions?

Put on some serious surgical gloves when you pick up the package from your mailbox. Open the package outside, near a fireplace, and drop the package, razor box, and any other paper or packing that came with the razor in the fire.

Now, take your razor and drill out the pins and toss the scales in the fire after the packaging materials.

Now drop your razor in a pressurized autoclave at 274 degrees fahrenheit.

Be sure to strip off the gloves and throw them in the fire after the scales.

Oh, you'll probably have to toss your drill press into the fire because it won't fit in the $25,000 autoclave that has an interior cavity that is 12" wide.


Okay, once the autoclave shuts off, you are probably safe--or did you touch the outside of the autoclave with your gloves?

If you did, you will need to put on another pair of gloves before touching the autoclave, and then open the autoclave.

Then remove the gloves and throw them in the fire with the drill press.

Then remove the razor (or what is left of it) and place it on your bathroom counter.

Now put on a 3rd pair of gloves and throw the autoclave in the fire, since you touched the outside of it with the gloves you used to open the razor box.

Now throw the 3rd pair of gloves in the fire with the drill press and the autoclave.

Viola, a completely safe razor.

Now where are you going to get replacement scales that you can be sure have no prions on them?

Hmmm, I'm stumped by that one.



There is more junk floating around in the air, on your bathroom surfaces, in your clothing and your bedding than would be on a razor you just washed in hot water and put away.

Think about it.

Clean it. Sanitize it by removing any clinging soil and loose corrosion when it arrives. Rinse it for several minutes under your hottest tap and then dry it. It will radiate heat for several minutes and all water will be off the surfaces.

This alone will reduce bacteria and viral counts to background levels, which is good enough.

If you are unfortunate enough to encounter prions on the blade, and you get them on you, well, you are probably f*cked.

You and Howard Hughes.

$.02

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Originally Posted by toolarts

There is more junk floating around in the air, on your bathroom surfaces, in your clothing and your bedding than would be on a razor you just washed in hot water and put away.

Think about it.

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Think about it. Sure. There's a significantly lower chance that someone else (or at least someone I don't know intimately) has bled on my bathroom surfaces, my clothing or my bedding. A used razor has a pretty high chance, and even old traces of blood is a cause for concern. So if you think about it, giving it more treatment than just washing it in hot water is a warranted precaution.

Sure, if you wash it (which, incidentally is not the same as sanitizing) you're probably safe. Some people would like to make that probably closer to definitely and there's nothing wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by They Call Me Blockhead

Some people would like to make that probably closer to definitely and there's nothing wrong with that.

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Except that it's obsessive and fails to recognise that there are more significant risks we face everyday without a second thought.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

This subject comes up every 4 months or so.....
And this time I would like to go on record, Anyone who has any razors that they don't feel safe shaving with please PM me and I will promptly dispose of them for you NO COST except shipping one way :)

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Clearly, my esteemed colleague is dillusional. He is in no way, shape or form capable of proper disposal of prion-infected materials. I, on the other hand, am a member in good standing of the SDMI (Societe de Destruction de Materiel Infectee), and can properly dispose of prion- (or other) infected materials.

For a nominal fee per razor, I can send you an SDMI-sanctioned certificate that can absolve you of any liability related to infected razor materials.

Please PM me... I dubiously await the arrival of your razors.

And they call me a conman GGGGGEEEEEESSSSSHHHHH!!!!

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Originally Posted by trewornan

Except that it's obsessive and fails to recognise that there are more significant risks we face everyday without a second thought.

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I really don't find a soak in disinfectant to reach anywhere near the level of obsessive. I mean, sure we could get hit by a car crossing the street, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't look both ways.

If it's one of mine and I cut myself, I'll rinse it, but that's it.

When I buy a used one, it gets swished around in some chlorox for a few minutes, which will kill damn near anything.

Lets not forgett in all this talk of CJD and Prions that not only do you have to injest or be injected with the infection but you also have to have the proper genetic predisposition to ever suffer from it.


Besides read my statement again from way above. Every time you polish a razor you are removing the whole top layer of metal, usually both with an abrasive and a chemical. I'm not going to worry about anything past that. Also soap, while not killing many germs, does emulsify them and float them off of a surface thats how it cleans. Once they are down the drain they aren't my problem any more. If anything survives that and sticks well enough to get to my face after surviving a generation of disuse and can infect me with great enough vigor through all my defences and from a tiny cut it is either going to kill me or be the common cold.

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Originally Posted by They Call Me Blockhead

I really don't find a soak in disinfectant to reach anywhere near the level of obsessive

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No, and I've confused the issue by effectively responding to separate parts of the thread in one comment. The obsessive bit is worrying about prions and viruses after cleaning and disinfectant (I'm not even convinced prions exist).

Psssssst: guys, if some do get scared off thinking the risks, real or imagined are high enough for them to put their razors up for sale or not bid against us for the razors we want..there will be more razors for less money all for the rest of us! Muhahahahahahahahahhahahahah! :tu;)

Chris L

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Originally Posted by Wildtim

Lets not forgett in all this talk of CJD and Prions that not only do you have to injest or be injected with the infection but you also have to have the proper genetic predisposition to ever suffer from it.

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Originally Posted by trewornan

No, and I've confused the issue by effectively responding to separate parts of the thread in one comment. The obsessive bit is worrying about prions and viruses after cleaning and disinfectant (I'm not even convinced prions exist).

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I think the pryon fear is just misinformation or misunderstanding. Unless a razor has been used for slicing samples or emergency spinal surgery, the risks of there being pryons on a razor are negligible (equivalent to them being on a doorknob).

The genetic CJD is different from the transmissible CJD. I ate a lot of hamburgers in the UK in the 80s and 90s, so I've done a lot of reading on this.

I read your post its a bit funny to me. I mean you won't share your girlfriend toothbrush vice versa. But I am sure you will let let her use her mouth on some other tool of yours. So what's the difference? I use my wifes toothbrush by mistake once I woke up and forgot the lights and just grab her and then she was like ask did I use it and I said no then she was like you forgot to rinse it off. But I was in a rush. So no I am not a sob I just forgot in my rush to work. Anyways if you marry her I am sure you will eventually catch her going through your things and using things that you otherwise wouldn't let her.

By the time I finish with the Dremel there couldn't possibly be anything alive left on the blade.

bj