Does our advice confuse?

I was thinking about the advice I was given when I started shaving and though about how it helped me and realised that when I started I probably took the advice too far.

For example, people say that you should always use a very light touch when shaving. That is fine for me when using a wedge but with a full hollow it tends to catch and the angle changes as you are trying to use a light touch. I do use a light touch but nowhere near what I imagined a light touch to be at the beginning.
Now I think that more important than a light touch is a confident stroke and a firm grip. That way if your touch is too light then you always have control of the razor and the balde doesn't want to twist with the friction so much.
I'm sure asking somebody to be confident with a straight first time is a long shot but I think it is quite important.
I think it is a problem with the internet - you can speak about somthing for ages but without actually being shown it is very difficult to learn.

It's like learning to ride a bike. You could read volumes of what you should do to ride a two-wheeler without ever having tried before, but until you actually get on the damn thing and start riding you cannot learn from reading alone.

If someone was to tell me how to ride a bike, they would probably start with giving me basic principles to help me get started. Many of those principles would be chucked away as I improve and become more advanced and I really start understanding the tiny nuances and adjustments to technique. Just like your descriptions of difference between approach with wedges and full hollows.

But if you were to try to give me every nuance right at the start of my learning, it would be of no benefit at best, and probably detrimental to the learning process.

In this case, I reckon "a light touch" is the right general principle to give a newb. It is easy to understand and will keep them safe whilst giving them a basis upon which to build confidence. If we were to say "light touch on wedges, but be firm with full hollows"... well... who's to say what 'firm' is? How firm? Firm like a can-can dancer's buttocks? Or firm as holding chopsticks? ;)

With the wealth of information on these forums, I think a newb has to have great discipline to stick to the basics (presented in the stickies, for example) and avoid temptation of diving into, for example, Advanced Honing threads.

Which is why I think the mentoring idea mentioned in another thread is great. When I was starting out it would have been great to have someone with experience showing me how firm the grip should be, how light the touch, how much or little pressure when honing, etc. rather than just relying on reading about it and interpreting those subjective descriptions myself.

There's a guy I know through friends who has been using straights for a couple of years, but has intermittently given up because he has never understood how to hone (he was unaware of SRP). I got him to read the forum and to buy a BBW/coticule combo -- he hasn't used it and this weekend I'm travelling up to Coventry to give him a basic lesson in honing so he can keep his own razors sharp. I have tried to describe to him about initial pressure, X pattern, rolling X, slurry (how thick should it be?), lapping, nagura stone, polishing, etc. but frankly, this visit will save hours of emailing back and forth and probably achieve better results sooner.

Just my tuppenceworth.:)

I am finding the advice a good place to start, but no amount of advice can give me that "feel" for how the blade is behaving, and that muscle memory that I am starting to notice.

Also, welcome to Cov - enjoy the inner ring road! :rant::p

:OTI've been visiting Cov for years, but lucky enough to avoid the inner ringroad as it's Earlsdon I go to. Does that count as Cov, or is too posh? ;)

True, I don't know how it is possible to explain many principles in words. When there are so many variables it is hard to know which are the most important to teach really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nickyspaghetti

True, I don't know how it is possible to explain many principles in words. When there are so many variables it is hard to know which are the most important to teach really.

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Everyone comes into it with a different experience and knowledge applicable toward shaving. Some have only used electric razors and don't know from experience anything about angle, stroke, pressure, etc. Others have been straight shaving for some time and have developed poor habits, and need this or that information. However, the person who needs one bit of information will read the solution to someone else's issues and try to apply it to their own without understanding they really need to try this or that first.

And if that's confusing, I may have answered your original question even more directly than I initially hoped, hahaha.

Anyway, if the question is what principle is most important to teach first to someone just starting to use a straight razor, then the answer is:

Safety first! ie. disinfect! watch the sharp end! be prepared! don't slice with the razor, don't play with the razor, don't mash the razor into your face, don't leave razors where other people can play with them, etc etc

I found, when I satared, that if you took your time to read the stickies, ask questions, and watch the videos BEFORE you put blade to face, you were starting the 100 metre sprint 40 yards in...it was such an advantage to understand the basic principles, the potential pitfalls to avoid, and the years worth of trial and error than can be conveyed by our members in a single thread.

As a newbie, and in our increasingly visually oriented world, I think that the videos are a huge asset, with the threads and our advice giving that personal interaction tweak that the videos lack.

Just my $0.02.

Mark

The advice we give will be confusing to many newbs I guess. However our advice is a cumulative body of many straight shavers' personal experience larded with sound basics. For the sound basics we better refer newbs to the help files and recommend they take it from there.

I am not longer a true newbie, but I have to say that I am grateful for all the advice given. Some of it didn't really help, but it was sincerely appreciated. I got explanations from many perspectives that I had not thought of at the time. After you get beyond a certani stage you seek less and less advice. By that time you have already worked out what works best for you. But you have to start somewhere...:tu

Quote:

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Originally Posted by majurey

It's like learning to ride a bike. You could read volumes of what you should do to ride a two-wheeler without ever having tried before, but until you actually get on the damn thing and start riding you cannot learn from reading alone.

If someone was to tell me how to ride a bike, they would probably start with giving me basic principles to help me get started. Many of those principles would be chucked away as I improve and become more advanced and I really start understanding the tiny nuances and adjustments to technique. Just like your descriptions of difference between approach with wedges and full hollows.

But if you were to try to give me every nuance right at the start of my learning, it would be of no benefit at best, and probably detrimental to the learning process.

In this case, I reckon "a light touch" is the right general principle to give a newb. It is easy to understand and will keep them safe whilst giving them a basis upon which to build confidence. If we were to say "light touch on wedges, but be firm with full hollows"... well... who's to say what 'firm' is? How firm? Firm like a can-can dancer's buttocks? Or firm as holding chopsticks? ;)

With the wealth of information on these forums, I think a newb has to have great discipline to stick to the basics (presented in the stickies, for example) and avoid temptation of diving into, for example, Advanced Honing threads.

Which is why I think the mentoring idea mentioned in another thread is great. When I was starting out it would have been great to have someone with experience showing me how firm the grip should be, how light the touch, how much or little pressure when honing, etc. rather than just relying on reading about it and interpreting those subjective descriptions myself.

There's a guy I know through friends who has been using straights for a couple of years, but has intermittently given up because he has never understood how to hone (he was unaware of SRP). I got him to read the forum and to buy a BBW/coticule combo -- he hasn't used it and this weekend I'm travelling up to Coventry to give him a basic lesson in honing so he can keep his own razors sharp. I have tried to describe to him about initial pressure, X pattern, rolling X, slurry (how thick should it be?), lapping, nagura stone, polishing, etc. but frankly, this visit will save hours of emailing back and forth and probably achieve better results sooner.

Just my tuppenceworth.:)

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I agree with everything you have said, Mark.

I have tried to learn to tie knots by reading or looking at a diagram out of a book. IMPOSSIBLE! - IMO. but when someone shows you how that knot is tied, you can see it and do it.

Steve