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I seem to recall reading in an old thread which I can't find now that older western style Japanese razors were good steel. Can anybody confirm that? I just landed a Travel Razor on eBay.
Straight Razor / "Travel Razor" / Japanese / Vintage - (eBay.ca item 370120714549 end time 07-Dec-08 23:00:00 EST)
I'm hoping it'll shave well.
X
Many Japanese smiths prefer swedish steels (white and blue) because it is closest to Tamahagane.
If it's made in Japan, it is most likely that that razor is made with swedish steel.
EDIT: The back of the tang says 'all steel' but the letters are faded.
That was probably 'Ball Steel' which is a type of steel used for ball bearings, and I think it is swedish steel.
Iwasaki ball steel razors are swedish steels if I am not mistaken.
So I'd say swedish steel.
Ball steel meant (I thought) about the type of steel: the one that is also used in ball bearings because of its toughness.
That razor of X may be Japanese steel, but it will not be tamahagane. I'd say it can't be.
It's a mass produced razor, and tamahagane is sold only to licensed smiths. And even then only in limited quantities. Imo there is no way that someone would be mass producing tamahagane razors in a factory for export only (no japanese maarkings either)
EDIT: I just looked again, and it 'could' be a frameback (hard to see).
In that case, the blade could be of higher quality than the frame, which would be consistent with the way tamahagane is used.
Still, the fact that it is a mass-produced razor makes it unlikely to me, due to the very limited availability, and the fact to it is normally only used in handmade tools. Additionally, I'd think that if it was indeed tamahagane, the kanji would be stamped on the tang or on theblade itself.
It could be lower grade tamahagane (rejected for sword and knive edges) but even that steel is used for making the back and / or tang of swords. Only the highes quality is used for the edge side.
I'll ask so what he thinks. I am now sufficiently curious that I'd like to know :)
Well, for the price I got it for I figure it's worth checking out. I'll let y'all know after it arrives.
X
From what I have found in my resources among the swordsmiths, Swedish steel was quite common for tools of all types that required a good cutting edge. The name for tamahagane includes ball steel which is an acceptable translation, although jewel steel makes it sound fancier. I agree that if it was tamahagane, it would be likely a higher price.Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL
@ OLD_SCHOOL: what sort of steel are the Tosuke razors, like the one you sold me, made of?
A few years ago when the Iwasaki's were commonly available the venders in Japan were selling 3 distinct types of razors. the standard were referred to as Swedish Steel and for another 200 bucks more you could get one referred to as Ball Steel and for about 2 grand you could get one termed tamahagne Steel.
You're right: I got mine from Telly. APOLOGIES!!Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL
I'm curious to know if it is a frameback or more likely I guess, a replaceable blade. That's another one i forgot to bid on:)
I believe the confusion over iwasaki's offerings stem from there being 2 different size razors, which accounts for the middle price, along with some sites using ball steel as a transliteration of tamahagane.
My friend Tomohito asked Mizuochi-san directly(He shaves with a folding western style razor made by Mizuochi) about the use of anything that might be ball steel, ball bearing steel or any other substance that might qualify for the terminology. He said, no.
But I never got a direct answer to exactly what swedish steel is used.
No I've never seen the ball or Tamahagne varieties so I don't know what the differences are. My understanding is Joel over at B&B has them all so you might want to ask him.
Yes all the Japanese razors came in two sizes both the Iwasaki and the Tosuke and the larger was more however that's a separate issue from the steel used.
I don't know if this applies but I found it doing a google on Tamahagne steel. Interesting reading one way or the other.
Its been my understanding that "Tamahagane" is usually used for the layered multi folded steel process the Japanese sword maker used. Similar to damascus steel, yet more refined in much higher layers ie; 2000 layers etc. or more. (damascus average 300 layers for good quality if forged into shape). I used to own a tamahagane made small tool knife I bought in Japan while visiting.
As far as scandinavian tool steel is concerned (I own many scandi knives) Krups tool steel is pretty much standard for tool steel in knives which can be tempered to a high rockwell of 60-61 , and silver steel for high end knives which hits rockwells of 61-62 (incredibly high). The high hardness of the steel in scandinavia is condusive to a very hard edge that can take and hold an incredibly sharp edge. US steel usually maxes out
at around 59 with an average of 57-58. The swedish prefer brusletto steel stainless, so I dont think swedish steel would be the choice of Japanese makers IMO. Rather Finland or Norwegian steel is more probable.
Ball bearing steel in the US is 52100 steel that comes in large bearing stock. These are usually forged to shape by mastersmiths in the US for incredible sharpness and toughness. 52100 is the boutique carbon steel of choice of the most renowned hand forger masters. I believe 52100 hits rockwels of 59-61
Therefore one can assume that for razors the higher the tempering capability of a steel is most desirable for an extremely sharp and lasting blade .