help for a frustrated beginner

Hello everyone!

I'm the guy that posted the other day about inheriting all the gear. Well, I decided to jump in and start using them. I have now 'shaved' twice. It was a rather grim experience. The blade felt like it just ripped hair and I did not really get a shave at all since I have a five o' clock shadow during and after the 'shave.' I believe that the problem is that the razor is not nearly sharp enough.

I picked what looked like the cheapest razor to sharpen, so that I did not mess up a nicer razor learning to hone. It is stamped Dixie manuf. company and had no obvious defects on the blade. I literally honed it for hours. I assume that the medium brown hone is the coarser grit, since it feels ever so slightly coarser than the black one I have. I put water on it and started to hone as the directions at classicshave.com instruct. The water did not stay on the hone for long, the razor pushed the water off. So at first most of the honing was dry. I then added some soap to the water and that allowed the water to stay on longer. I then honed the razor again for literally hundreds of rounds. When I ran the balde over my wet fingernail it seemed to pass that test in that it dug in and ran smoothly across. It could not pass the hair test though.

Today I shaved for a second time and the razor felt better than yesterday (after using the soap on the hone), but still dull (if it was a DE blade I would have replaced it). I have not stroped the blade either. I'm not sure what's wrong. It seems that it should be really sharp by now, but no. I know my shaving technique is rather clumsy right now, so that may be the problem, but I think the sharpness is a bigger one. Well, I just don't know what to do. I believe my honing technique is greatly improving from all the attempts to sharpen the balde, but it's still not sharp. What am I doing wrong? Thanks for any help.

Hello, me again. When you are honing always use a light pressure. The pressure should be only that which is necessary to keep the blade flat on the stone. This rule applys to the two stones that you are using when your razor has a properly established bevel.

How to use the hones. Check out the Honing & Stropping forum, please clear this one for me, honing ratios, page two and read the post from Kelly. Pay attention to the diagrams and how much of the razor is to be on the hone.

What you have are probably classic barber hones. They require more laps on the stone then if you were using a 3" Norton 4000/8000 hone. They simply cut steel slower than the modern hones.

Some of us use a technique that the founder of this group, Lynn Abrams, developed. It is called Pyramid honing and is a gradual, cautious approach to honing a razor. Its goal is to avoid overhoning a razor.

The notation used is XX on the coarse stone/ XX on the fine stone, such as on the Norton stone a suggested set of sequences is
1/5 ( one lap on the coarse stone followed by 5 laps on the fine stone) then
1/5 then
3/5 then
1/5 then
1/5
You would use the ball of your thumb or the nail test or the hanging hair test, whichever, to feel the amount of change. Repeat if necessary. The above sequence would be applied to a previously keen razor that was no longer shaving as well as you wished.

A more aggressive sequence is
15/5
10/5
5/5
3/5
1/5
1/5
Then test again, repeat if necessary
This would be applied to a razor that was pulling hair and not shaving.

Now, the above is only for a Norton Hone. The classic barber hones require much more laps.
How much really depends on the hones that you are using. Try the following,( boy am I going to catch flack for this but you have to start somewhere)
I feel that a multiple of 5 is quite conservative so my suggestion to you is start cautiously with the following sequence

5/15
5/15
15/15
5/15
5/15
test, if close then repeat, if not then a more agressive sequence is

75/15
60/15
50/15
40/15 ( perform your tests several times during this sequence)
30/15
20/15
15/15
10/15
5/15
5/15
5/15
test, by this time you will have developed a feel for the rate of change that occurs and you can modify the sequences to suit. Repeat as necessary.

The difficulty you will face is determining when the razor is shaving sharp. Since you have no point of reference it will be an incremental process. But rest assured that it will get there.
By the way, the only real test is the shave itself.

Oh ! You MUST strop before each shave! 35 slow, gentle laps should do it.

Patience is a necessity ( unfortunately),

Hello, me again. When you are honing always use a light pressure. The pressure should be only that which is necessary to keep the blade flat on the stone. This rule applys to the two stones that you are using when your razor has a properly established bevel.

How to use the hones. Check out the Honing & Stropping forum, please clear this one for me, honing ratios, page two and read the post from Kelly. Pay attention to the diagrams and how much of the razor is to be on the hone.

What you have are probably classic barber hones. They require more laps on the stone then if you were using a 3" Norton 4000/8000 hone. They simply cut steel slower than the modern hones.

Some of us use a technique that the founder of this group, Lynn Abrams, developed. It is called Pyramid honing and is a gradual, cautious approach to honing a razor. Its goal is to avoid overhoning a razor.

The notation used is XX on the coarse stone/ XX on the fine stone, such as on the Norton stone a suggested set of sequences is
1/5 ( one lap on the coarse stone followed by 5 laps on the fine stone) then
1/5 then
3/5 then
1/5 then
1/5
You would use the ball of your thumb or the nail test or the hanging hair test, whichever, to feel the amount of change. Repeat if necessary. The above sequence would be applied to a previously keen razor that was no longer shaving as well as you wished.

A more aggressive sequence is
15/5
10/5
5/5
3/5
1/5
1/5
Then test again, repeat if necessary
This would be applied to a razor that was pulling hair and not shaving.

Now, the above is only for a Norton Hone. The classic barber hones require much more laps.
How much really depends on the hones that you are using. Try the following,( boy am I going to catch flack for this but you have to start somewhere)
I feel that a multiple of 5 is quite conservative so my suggestion to you is start cautiously with the following sequence

5/15
5/15
15/15
5/15
5/15
test, if close then repeat, if not then a more agressive sequence is

75/15
60/15
50/15
40/15 ( perform your tests several times during this sequence)
30/15
20/15
15/15
10/15
5/15
5/15
5/15
test, by this time you will have developed a feel for the rate of change that occurs and you can modify the sequences to suit. Repeat as necessary.

The difficulty you will face is determining when the razor is shaving sharp. Since you have no point of reference it will be an incremental process. But rest assured that it will get there.
By the way, the only real test is the shave itself.

Oh ! You MUST strop before each shave! 35 slow, gentle laps should do it.

Patience is a necessity ( unfortunately),

Go check that post, kelly is giving some nice tips:)

I am also in the middle of getting the honing right, just go slow and watch the proces...

There are some laps on the barbers hone, randy:)


I didnt know that the stropping is absolutely necesary after honing.


best luck

Go check that post, kelly is giving some nice tips:)

I am also in the middle of getting the honing right, just go slow and watch the proces... Also, get a shavette style razor, that is straight razor with DE blades, and start shaving with that, it will give you feeling for sharpness. That is what i did.

There are some laps on the barbers hone, randy:)


I didnt know that the stropping is absolutely necesary after honing.


best luck, bob

Go check that post, kelly is giving some nice tips:)

I am also in the middle of getting the honing right, just go slow and watch the proces...

There are some laps on the barbers hone, randy:)


I didnt know that the stropping is absolutely necesary after honing.


best luck, bob

Go check that post, kelly is giving some nice tips:)

I am also in the middle of getting the honing right, just go slow and watch the proces... Also, get a shavette style razor, that is straight razor with DE blades, and start shaving with that, it will give you feeling for sharpness. That is what i did.

There are some laps on the barbers hone, randy:)


I didnt know that the stropping is absolutely necesary after honing.


best luck, bob

Bob, in addition to following the advice of Randy and the other users, you might also try stropping on a good linen strop before going from the hone to the leather strop. Many of the users here, myself included, swear by the results. A piece of leather or a flatbed hone with .5 micron paste is also another step that you can try right after honing if none of the other techniques have brought your razor to satisfactory shaving edge. The paste can be purchased from Classic Shaving or several other sites mentioned here by different users. While classic barber hones can provide excellent results, they can also be a cause of frustration for the beginning shaver as they are bit trickier than some of the larger sharpening stones. They are the most affordable however.

Bob

Bob, in addition to following the advice of Randy and the other users, you might also try stropping on a good linen strop before going from the hone to the leather strop. Many of the users here, myself included, swear by the results. A piece of leather or a flatbed hone with .5 micron paste is also another step that you can try right after honing if none of the other techniques have brought your razor to satisfactory shaving edge. The paste can be purchased from Classic Shaving or several other sites mentioned here by different users. While classic barber hones can provide excellent results, they can also be a cause of frustration for the beginning shaver as they are bit trickier than some of the larger sharpening stones. They are the most affordable however.

Bob

Thanks for the advice,

Yesterday I did the pyramid honing for the barber stones. I also stroped it this morning and shaved. It was still too dull, so I'm going to continue to hone away. It was much better than yesterday though. One thing I have noticed is that the blade seems to get duller during a shave. By the time I get to my chin and upper lip, it is downright awful (or those hairs are just tougher). Well, I guess learning to hone just gives me the oppertunity to practice the virtues of patience and pesistance.

Additionally, I watched the video on this site of how the shave with a straight and it is a great resource! I found that I was holding the razor all wrong. It really helped- so thank you very much in helping me skip some of the basic beginner mistakes. I think the actual shaving technique is a lot easier than the honing; I haven't cut myself (yet) and the only problem with the shaving (beyond the horribly dull blade) is sometimes it is hard to see what I'm doing in the mirror while shaving (esp. around the sideburns). Thanks to everyone again for their help.

Thanks for the advice,

Yesterday I did the pyramid honing for the barber stones. I also stroped it this morning and shaved. It was still too dull, so I'm going to continue to hone away. It was much better than yesterday though. One thing I have noticed is that the blade seems to get duller during a shave. By the time I get to my chin and upper lip, it is downright awful (or those hairs are just tougher). Well, I guess learning to hone just gives me the oppertunity to practice the virtues of patience and pesistance.

Additionally, I watched the video on this site of how the shave with a straight and it is a great resource! I found that I was holding the razor all wrong. It really helped- so thank you very much in helping me skip some of the basic beginner mistakes. I think the actual shaving technique is a lot easier than the honing; I haven't cut myself (yet) and the only problem with the shaving (beyond the horribly dull blade) is sometimes it is hard to see what I'm doing in the mirror while shaving (esp. around the sideburns). Thanks to everyone again for their help.

I know what you mean. There is nothing worse than a dull razor to shave with. Actually I got cut more because I would keep going back to get a close shave and sooner or later blood. I have also come to the conclusion that it is harder to learn to hone a razor than to learn to use one.

I know what you mean. There is nothing worse than a dull razor to shave with. Actually I got cut more because I would keep going back to get a close shave and sooner or later blood. I have also come to the conclusion that it is harder to learn to hone a razor than to learn to use one.

Bob, you may want to go over to the Yahoo! SRP forum site and do a message search for "wire" or "wire edge" .... that's possibly a problem when you've done alot of honing.

Bob, you may want to go over to the Yahoo! SRP forum site and do a message search for "wire" or "wire edge" .... that's possibly a problem when you've done alot of honing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uthed

Bob, you may want to go over to the Yahoo! SRP forum site and do a message search for "wire" or "wire edge" .... that's possibly a problem when you've done alot of honing.

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Hey David, correct me if I am wrong ( it would not be the first time) but I thought it was you who suggested that to remove a wire edge a person does 3-5 back honing strokes (back of blade leading) followed by 3-5 normal (edge leading) honing strokes? :?

That will usually take care of it, Randy.

I have also found that a wire edge usually goes away with a 3-3 rotation on the Norton followed by a couple of 1-3's. :lol: Lynn