My latest weird suggestion

Buy a shavette. Yup, a shavette. I'm certainly not saying you should replace your straight with a shavette, but merely add it to your rotation. There's several reasons why this noob thinks other noobs (and maybe even seasoned pros) should have a shavette:

1. Shavette blades are SHARP! Damn sharp. Unfortunately, they are sooo sharp that many will feel like they are overly harsh. Which is actually an advantage.

2. The overly harsh/sharp blade makes you concentrate (your undivided attention, really) on your technique. Don't use any pressure with a shavette, or you'll bleed. Make sure the *edge* is totally flat on your face at all times, or you'll bleed. Don't do anything wrong regarding your technique, or you'll bleed. Don't use too high of a blade angle, or you'll remove too much skin, which makes for killer razor burn. Shavettes really make you concentrate on your technique. I've found that I've gotten sloppy with my technique. A few shaves with a shavette will get you back in line in a hurry.

3. They make for a great comparison as to how sharp your regular straights are. They will also give you a great appreciation for the fine work of our honemeisters, as well as give you a target to shoot for. You may not realize exactly how not-sharp your straights are until you either: A. Get a straight sharpened by a honemeister, or B. Buy a shavette to compare them to.

The two honemeisters I have used so far have hit a very small target. As sharpness goes up, so does "harshness". At the shavette level of sharpness, the harshness is too much. Both honemeisters I've used have been able to get the perfect level of sharpness/harshness. Just slightly below a shavette, but not so dull as to pull. I'm getting to the point where I can hit that target more consistently, but then again, I hone * a lot*.

The dulling of a straight razor is a slow process. (duh). Often times, it seems like I don't even realize how dull a straight is until I compare it to a shavette. Like today.... using my Lynn honed blade for half a face, then a shavette for the other half. I didn't really realize how much of the edge was gone from my Lynn honed blade until a pass with the shavette made me realize that the straight was pulling like crazy. Silly me didn't even realize it. For those of you guys that don't hone, having a shavette will really let you know when it's time to send your blade off for honing.

When used with good technique, shavettes are capable of giving a comfortable shave. If you're bleeding or burned, it means you need to adjust something.

A couple things about buying a shavette... I would recommend getting a shavette that uses long blades. My shavette uses Derby standard DE blades that are broken in half at the factory. This gives you a very short edge. Too short, really. It is much harder to use a short blade that has two spike points than a longer blade with only one. I believe that Classic Shaving carries a shavette that uses custom blades. They are more expensive, but the blades are also longer, and I believe they are only spiked at one end. To me, this seems like it would be much easier to learn, and not so quick to judge you on anything less than perfect technique.

Now please excuse me while I go grab my styptic pencil. The shavette was incredibly critical of my technique today.

Floorpizza,

I'm afraid we're going to disagree on this one.
Your premise almost seems to be that you have to shave with the sharpest edge possible. While that may be an option, it is certainly not the only possible path for the traditional shaver.
It is tempting, once you start honing your own blades, to become completely obsessed with sharpness. I have been there. But being a sharper shaver doesn't turn you into a better shaver. As a matter of fact, you'd be surprised with how "unsharp" a blade can still shave fine and comfortable in experienced hands.
You talk about zero pressure, but I tell you that exactly controlled pressured is the true trademark of shave artists such as Williheuser, that we al saw on that awesome shaving video http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...ing-video.html
By the way, Willi says he hones his razor once a year on "a stone, a fine one". Now I'm not saying we should all be shaving like this one example, but it did put certain things into perspective for me.
I often assess razors for sharpness, both for honing experiments and because I offer a razor assessment service together with my honing. For a long time I have thought that sharper equaled closer, and that sharper edges would resolve my smoothness issues with a few stubborn patches on my neck. The most important lesson I have learned from shaving with so many different edges, is that this is a wrong assumption.
My friend Kris, a passionate straight shaver, took a different route than I have: while I was struggling with improving my honing results, he just sticked with shaving with the basic edge he can easily reproduce. He became a master on shaving with that edge. While I was more occupied with keenness and may have become the better honer of us two, he surely is the better shaver, simply because he gave it his undivided attention. Neither of us needs DE-keenness to have a smooth shave. But if you are going to calibrate you shaving technique with the behavior of a DE-blade in a Shavette, it won't be long before you need that standard. It is a self-fulfilling premise.

When my dad learned me how to drive a car, he took me to an up-hill road, made me halt the car with running engine and then asked me to proceed again (everybody drives hand shifted in Belgium). I couldn't do it, and my father said it was far more difficult to drive slowly than to drive hard, before he showed how it could be done with balancing the clutch pedal. I always remembered that lesson.
Now, can you put a medium sharp razor on the corner of your chin, just behind a few stubborn whiskers and start an ATG shaving stroke, without hurting or nicking yourself and leave a completely smooth patch?

Floorpizza, please don't take this as a sign of disrespect. I was on the same page as you about a year ago.

Kind regards,
Bart.

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

At the shavette level of sharpness, the harshness is too much. Both honemeisters I've used have been able to get the perfect level of sharpness/harshness. Just slightly below a shavette, but not so dull as to pull.

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Quoted for emphasis. Believe it or not, I think we're actually agreeing on this one. There *is* a point of too sharp, and I feel that shavette blades *are* too sharp, as quoted above. It's that "small target" I referred to: Not so sharp as to feel harsh like a shavette, but not too dull to pull, either. *That* is the level of sharpness I like.

And I don't ever take any disrespect from your posts, Bart. :) We're here to discuss, learn, and see opposing points of view.

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Originally Posted by Bart

Now, can you put a medium sharp razor on the corner of your chin, just behind a few stubborn whiskers and start an ATG shaving stroke, without hurting or nicking yourself and leave a completely smooth patch?

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Not even at gun point. ;)

Sorry but your trying to sell an auto-loader at a convention of wheel gun freaks.

Its not about the sharpness. There are many devices you can use to shave. We use straights because we like em. Some like feathers and some like DE's and some like injectors and some like electrics and all have their reasons. You use what makes you happy.

For me I see no reason to use a feather type. I get BBS and it lasts all day. I doubt I will see any further improvement with a disposable.

I think it's a good idea for the newbies, if only for the reason that your focus is entirely on your technique, both because you're new and it's as sharp as sharp gets. Once you've got it down, the move to a real straight couldn't be easier. Besides, the cost of a shavette is negligible if you account for the amount of times you'll send out your brand new straight that you nicked on the sink/counter/etc.

I'm afraid I'm with Bart on this one...but I'll take it a step further and say I DON'T recommend a shavette for a newbie.

They are so sharp they're dangerous and while you might think they improve your technique in most cases they hinder the learning process of shaving with a "normally sharp" straight because all you're focused on is keeping the bleeding to a minimum.

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

Buy a shavette.

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Oh really?

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

Yup, ... Shavette blades are SHARP! ... overly harsh. Which is actually an advantage.

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How's that?

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

... makes you concentrate (your undivided attention, really) on your technique.

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I can do that on my own. I call it self discipline. I don't think I'm the only one with this power.

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

Don't use any pressure ... or you'll bleed. Make sure ... or you'll bleed. Don't ..., or you'll bleed. ... remove too much skin, ... razor burn.

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Not a very good pitch, son. As a rebuttal I think I'm gonna stick with the, "Right tool for the right job" defense.

X

I have been shaved by shavette before, but I have never had one to examine..

What factors are considered in labeling them as sharper than a straight. Is it mostly bevel angle and being so thin? I admit to a John Henry complex about being beaten by a machine process especially on my dear to heart -sharpening. :OTThat's why i hate that darn How It's Made show

Does the harshness remain after being stropped?

I've had those times when honing along, it's all clockwork ordinary so one would expect a good result. Straight off the hone it acts sharp but shaves harshly. When I check it out on RS miniscope, there is always something wrong. That is a crappy little microscope; but you can see a lot. With different angles and lighting some things are hard to say what they are. I know.

What I think I can see is the light reflecting off the bur.(?) Sometimes continuous, or intermittent , and sometimes I think i see the same "streak" of light on both sides. It's all in how you orient the blade and the degree of dependence on the internal light source

In bright light with the blade positioned to get the clearest view and full magnification, the edge appears rather smooth, straight and crisp.

And right off the hone can feel "harsh" . With a few strap laps it is dandy.

The other kind of harsh I know, like the worst shave I ever lived through; The chippy Tornblom I wrote about in my honing only thread. (2 goals) Very sharp and chipped (teeny tiny) is kinda like broken wire edge. ( a wire can be very small, it need not be something you can pull off with your fingernail) Both shave nasty.

Not knowing any better, judging the way the blade feels like it breaks down mid shave, I would label shavettes, bur sharp,:rolleyes: not razor sharp. Bur sharp is not really sharp


On the chin patch- only if it is medium sharp enough;)

Ah my friend; you are nuts!

I got my first shave by a barber who use a shavette and had to chance the blades twice. That thing SUCKED so badly that when I came home (still bleeding from about 15 different spots) I had to shave again because it was so uneven and was driving me absolutely nuts.

I'd rather take an endoscope in the bum than ever use or have one of those things used on me again!

I have several blades I will put up against a Shavette for sharpness anytime. Because they are smoother they are much more manageable to get a good shave without blood. If I wanted a disposable I would be using a DE. No thank you, I will use my Real Straight Razor until the end.

bj

I sure like my Shavette.. now I'll go and run for cover...

I agree with Bart ant the Xman on this one. Why waste your money buying a disposable when the real thing (sharpend by someone whom knows what to do) is a whole different ballgame....

If I want to use a disposable I might as well have stayed with my old, dusty DE...

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Originally Posted by mlangstr

I sure like my Shavette.. now I'll go and run for cover...

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:rofl2:

Come on out! What works for you is all that matters.

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Originally Posted by xman

Oh really?

How's that?

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Explained in the post.

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Originally Posted by xman

I can do that on my own. I call it self discipline. I don't think I'm the only one with this power.

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*some* of us could use help in this department. Some don't. Some do and don't realize it. ;)

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Originally Posted by xman

Not a very good pitch, son. As a rebuttal I think I'm gonna stick with the, "Right tool for the right job" defense.

X

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Sorry if it hit a nerve with you, Pops.

Sheesh, guys, I don't mind people taking the opposing point of view on stuff, but to sound as belittling and have an overall negative tone like this just isn't necessary.

Sorry I brought this up. And X, your Incredible self discipline needs to carry over to your posts.

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

Sheesh, guys, I don't mind people taking the opposing point of view on stuff, but to sound as belittling and have an overall negative tone like this just isn't necessary.

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I think it was a good post FP! Say what you feel my friend! I've never used a shavette on myself and might realize what you mean if were I able to. They still scare me though!";"
Jeff

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

... Sorry if it hit a nerve with you, Pops. ...

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:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

touché

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Originally Posted by Bart

...But being a sharper shaver doesn't turn you into a better shaver. As a matter of fact, you'd be surprised with how "unsharp" a blade can still shave fine and comfortable in experienced hands...
.

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A truer statement was never uttered! Thanks! Hanging around here I was suspecting I was the only one who understood this.

As my honing skills arent all that good yet I sometimes have razors that are not really shave ready yet. (I usualy find out after I started shaving.. all lathered up no other shaveready and stropped razor in sight..)
If I have to choose between a not so shave ready razor or my shavette, which might be too harsh..I would prefer the shavette..

Also on vacations I think I'll leave my nice razor, strops and stones at home and take the Shavette along..so I dont have to be afraid to ding a blade, crack a scale or worse..

Its really possible to get a comfortable,bloodfree shave with the shavette.. but for me its easier to get a comfortable shave with a real straight.

As for newbies and shavettes.. well some do very well with one(I'm one of those) and some dont..

Maarten

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Originally Posted by mlangstr

As my honing skills arent all that good yet I sometimes have razors that are not really shave ready yet. (I usualy find out after I started shaving.. all lathered up no other shaveready and stropped razor in sight..)
If I have to choose between a not so shave ready razor or my shavette, which might be too harsh..I would prefer the shavette..

Also on vacations I think I'll leave my nice razor, strops and stones at home and take the Shavette along..so I dont have to be afraid to ding a blade, crack a scale or worse..

Its really possible to get a comfortable,bloodfree shave with the shavette.. but for me its easier to get a comfortable shave with a real straight.

As for newbies and shavettes.. well some do very well with one(I'm one of those) and some dont..

Maarten

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All true Maarten.
If I'm allowed a metaphor:
Straight Razors are like acoustic grand pianos. High maintenance and no matter how good you get, there's always margin for further mastery.
Shavettes are like Casio electronic keyboards. They don't require tuning, no maintenance, and are more convenient to take on a travel.
Unfortunately, they have no soul, and they offer only a crude imitation of the splendor of the original.
If someone plans to master the piano, I would recommend him a decent acoustic piano. That doesn't mean you can't have fun with a Casio.

(Though I wouldn't enter a conservatoire and proclaim there that they all would benefit buying a Casio)

Steinway & Sons forever!
Long live Wade & Butcher!!

Bart.

Bart.. I think you hit the right string...

I've got a Yamaha electronic Piano.. and learned to play on a real Piano..
you can feel a real piano.. in stead of just hear it...

(you dont want to move one though... )

Maarten

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Originally Posted by Bart

Unfortunately, they have no soul, and they offer only a crude imitation of the splendor of the original.

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Originally Posted by mlangstr

Bart.. I think you hit the right string...

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Maybe you two should write a new article called 88 keys to great shaving :rofl2:

I am afraid that I do agree on this one .I learnt to work with a very light touch by using a shavette .I was impressed enough to post a review of the offending item in the reviews forum .& i do use mine on the odd occasion & i always take one along with a straight when I travel .It gets used as a backup. you soon learn to watch out for the Spike of the blade .
Cheers Paul

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Originally Posted by Bart

If I'm allowed a metaphor:
Straight Razors are like acoustic grand pianos. High maintenance and no matter how good you get, there's always margin for further mastery.
Shavettes are like Casio electronic keyboards. They don't require tuning, no maintenance, and are more convenient to take on a travel.

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Rolf Harris shaves with a Mach3:
Attachment 21411

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

Maybe you two should write a new article called 88 keys to great shaving :rofl2:

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Originally Posted by Rajagra

Rolf Harris shaves with a Mach3:
Attachment 21411

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Hmm... don't know... isn't that a DE? :roflmao

From a complete noobs point of view.

I wanted to use a straight razor, but I did not particularly want to spend a lot of money on something and later realise it wasn't for me (who does) I bought a shavette because it was a cheap and effective way to learn the technique. You don't need to worry about anything, I got 10 VERY sharp blades in the little kit I bought (which cost bugger all).

I used it straight off for my whole shave, and sure I have a couple of nicks and a cut or two, but nothing major, certainly nothing to put me off, only enough for me to think 'with a bit more practice, you could be damn good at this'

In a week, I'm getting better shaves than I ever have with my 'fusion' razor (the wet shave that vibrates)

Sure, it's not the real deal, I know that and you know that. But for $10 it's a hell of a cheap way to get into shaving with a straight blade.

i'm now looking for a 'proper' straight razor and looking into buying all the required kit, but I have no doubt my shavette will be in the wings, waiting for holidays or weekends away when the sheer simplicity will win out and I'll use it again.

The best £10 I've spent for a long time, I think. Don't write off shavettes, especially for those (like me as a student) who don't have the means to splash out on something just for a test.

Sounds like that dog can't hone