Misinformation by a barber

Just read an interview with a barber about wet shaving, in one of the national newspapers.

The article was not bad, but unfortunately he made the following quote:

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Q: should I shave with a straight razor?
A: No, absolutely not, unless you intent to hurt yourself badly. I can shave my customers, but not myself. It is too clumsy and too dangerous.

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This sort of thing really annoys me. First of all, it's not true, and second, it is conflict of interest. A barber telling you that you can't shave yourself... right...

So I just sent him an email, explaining who I was, and why I did not agree. I finished with telling him that his statement is incorrect, and that I'll gladly give a demonstration if he doesn't believe me.
We'll see what happens.

NICE!

I had a similar experience with a local guy whom I was referred to for honing services. The local Art of Shaving shop had given me his name and when I called he said that straight razors were meant to be used by the person giving the shave, not getting the shave. I told him that I was sorry to be wasting his time and good bye.

I can't wait to see how this pans out for you Bruno.

-Rob

I think this means that we are all INVINCIBLE SUPERMEN!!!!!

Sounds like a poor marketing ploy. "It's best you don't do it because it's far too dangerous. Instead come to me and I'll do it." :roflmao

I was talking to a barber friend of my fathers. He told me that old cut throat razors can not be used because they all have bad edges. He also said that it's impossible to sharpen them to shave ready.
I just smiled at him and thought 'you are an idiot.'

In the early '80s when I first attempted to get into straight razor shaving and honing I had one barber in particular that I relied on for help. He was in his seventies and had been cutting hair for 50 years. He showed me how to hone on a coticule and on a Swaty. Rather he showed me how he honed for about 30 seconds.

Some of the misinformation that he gave me was that you could overstrop a razor and that you should be able to get a razor sharp using just the weight of the blade in just a few strokes on a coticule with lather.

If he knew about lapping hones to flat he never mentioned it and I'm reasonably sure that he didn't. Years later, after coming to SRP, I lapped the Swaty I got from him and that was the first time it had ever been flattened. He also didn't tell me about setting bevels or using a bit of pressure in the early stages of honing.

He was a really nice man and a good barber and meant well. Unfortunately an example of the adage that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". BTW, if it seems like I'm blaming him for my giving up on shaving with straights years back I'm not. I should have been more persistent. All's well that ends well and I found SRP.

That reminds me of what my step-mother recentle said to me!

I had posted pictures of my razor collection over Facebook to show all my friends how awesomely cool I was, and my step-mother made a comment saying that I shouldn't post pictures of straight razors because they are dangerous and scary and that "potential employers" scan social networking sites. She then proceeded to ask me if I would hire someone who had tons of pictures of razors and knives.

I told her that my boss thought it was really cool that I'm respecting a shaving tradition passed down from generation to generation for the past 1500 years.

I have a client who was a PA licensed barber. His prior criminal record was an impediment to his real estate licensure and that is why I was hired! But he is a good guy, now.

Anyway, I told him I was SR shaving and was secretly hoping he'd lavish me with hones, strops, SRs....ok, maybe some advice. In PA to get a barbers license....you once had (perhaps still a requirement, though I havent researched) to know how to SR shave. He told me they practiced on inflated balloons. He told me by law, he is still required to have a strop in his shop...so he had one hanging somewhere. I could tell he was more interested in the woman sitting beside me (acquaintance) than my my passion for everything SR!!

Its been years since I've had a PA barber give me an SR shave. The old guys that I'd trust have long gone. We have an AOS in the Philly area......no way am I sitting in that chair! Judging from the conversations I've struck with the personnel there...not much depth. I get the sense that they are there for the job and have little more training than the burger flipper at a fast "food" joint.

Best all......

Ouch, the stupid hurts my brain. Does this barber think that no one shaved themselves before disposables were invented? How old was this guy?

I have to tell you, I am about sick to death of the "straight razors are dangerous" Bull $#!+. Do a google search on straights and find all of the various articles out there. Every last one starts off with "you might cut yourself really badly". It's like the movie "Christmas Story" when everyone tells the kid, "You'll shoot your eye out". How the hell did people shave before disposables?

It's been 9 years since I started using a straight and my head is still firmly attached to my body. Have I ever cut myself? Yes, but it's never been any worse than when I used a disposable (my worst shaving injury came from a Bic, I managed to remove a pretty good chunk of my chin). Of course I've gotten nicked, everyone gets nicks, including people who use disposables.

Here's a little safety tip. If you're dragging a razor blade across your face and you start to feel it bite into your skin, stop. But I don't really have to tell you this, because people do that naturally. Really, they do. I have yet to meet the man who would do otherwise. It's like pulling your hand out of a fire.

[Used partial quote from Bruno ] So I just sent him an email, explaining who I was, and why I did not agree. I finished with telling him that his statement is incorrect We'll see what happens.[/QUOTE]

Why don't you give us all his email address so we can enlighten him to the success and knowledge of str8 shaving on SRP.com;)

Its too bad you cant get an interview like this man has, he would be shown for the non professional that he is. Go get him Bruno, Godspeed.

When people say stupid things like that, I just shake my head and walk away.

Sometimes, I tell them they are ignorant too.

Hey, that leaves more razors for me.:shrug:

The barber I went to 30 years ago here in my town was a true barber in the old classic way. He retired soon after I started going there. I never got a shave, but he would always use a straight razor to trim my side burns after the haircut. He would strop it just before using it. Too bad he's gone now. I'm sure he could have told me a lot.

More to the subject, some folks seem compelled to pontificate about things which they do not know or understand or have any knowledge. I tend to avoid those types.

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

Its too bad you cant get an interview like this man has, he would be shown for the non professional that he is. Go get him Bruno, Godspeed.

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Actually, I just mailed the journalist who wrote the article, and explained my issue with the article. I offered him a demonstration and an answer to any questions he might have. We'll see.

I will keep you posted.

It's a shame that people are still getting this nonsense.

However, you only have to look on ebay, or any of the various forums and indeed the numerous vendors to know that traditional shaving is on the up. So hopefully information like this isn't taken too seriously by the masses.

The barber possibly just shared his honest opinion. He's wrong, but that doesn't turn him into a fraud. (I haven't read the article). I even tend to believe the barber's statement that he can shave others but not himself, and although he could have nuanced, straight razor shaving is a sure way to get hurt if you don't know what you're doing. The article should have mentioned that it can be learned, with some perseverance.

Cheers for emailing the journalist, Bruno. Maybe you'll get an interview.:gl:
Where was the article published?

Best regards,
Bart.

Actually if I wanted the worst possible straight advice the first place I would go is to a modern day barber.

I tried visiting some "master barbers" in the area and most simply have no knowledge about straight shaving. Its seems to be long lost except for here. I consider myself competent, but not as knowledgeable as most folks here. Its pretty sad when I walk in the AOS and I know volumes more than them all. I think thats why I am afraid to have a AOS shave....I can only imagine how some guys get butchered.

I read an article recently about a barber here in Alberta (I believe he is in Calgary) who still does "straight razor" shaves. Customers interviewed gushed all over his services, saying it was traditional, best shave ever, zero irritation and is the way to go (as a side note this has not been my experience with so-called modern barber shaves; irritation free? yeah right).

My problem with this is a) I happen to know for a fact that provincial law mandates the use of a shavette, which is NOT a proper straight shave, and b) if he is using a REAL straight he is breaking the law as we don't know how, or if, he sterilizes his razors. I think it would be a shame for young and/or ignorant males to think that a sub-par shavette shave is the be-all end-all of the true straight razor experience. More misinformation from a supossed expert.

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Originally Posted by dward

Sounds like a poor marketing ploy. "It's best you don't do it because it's far too dangerous. Instead come to me and I'll do it." :roflmao

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+1. Sure sounds like it.
Best of luck with the press.

This is why I don't place too much trust in experts. Just because it's their job and they have qualifications, it doesn't mean they are always right. Often all it means is they can express a wrong opinion without fear of being challenged.

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Originally Posted by Rajagra

This is why I don't place too much trust in experts. Just because it's their job and they have qualifications, it doesn't mean they are always right. Often all it means is they can express a wrong opinion without fear of being challenged.

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That's funny. My lawyer told me the same thing just this friday. He said "I don't know anything you don't already know, Joe. The only difference between you and I is that I'm not emotionally invested in this."

In this barbers defense, he may have been totally misquoted. He may have simply said "I don't shave myself with a straight. It's awkward and I'm afraid I may cut myself badly." The writer may have misunderstood him and decided to "punch up" the quote a bit. The only thing more unreliable than an "expert" is a journalist. Almost everyone I know who's been quoted in the press has been misquoted.

this is the kind of nonsense that i was increasingly hearing from barbers around town, when justifying why they had switched to disposable blades, and even cartridgges... everything from its too hard, a liability, too hard to keep sharp.. etc etc.
most even said " these work better anyways"

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Originally Posted by joesixpack

In this barbers defense, he may have been totally misquoted. He may have simply said "I don't shave myself with a straight. It's awkward and I'm afraid I may cut myself badly." The writer may have misunderstood him and decided to "punch up" the quote a bit. The only thing more unreliable than an "expert" is a journalist. Almost everyone I know who's been quoted in the press has been misquoted.

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That is a very good point.

My barber is certainly one of the old school, just past official retiring age.
He is a very good barber. Like the first one quoted, his answer when I told him that I was using a cutthroat to shave was very similar: "I've shaved plenty of customers but couldn't shave myself with one". Honest, for sure, but the last thing I would describe him as is ignorant or unskilled.

hey, you guys are lucky in some respects, are least there are avenues to explore when it comes to hitting up experienced barbers for knowledge. where i live (sunny brisbane, australia) there is virtually nobody, let me stress that, NO professional barbers (at least none i've come across, and i've asked a few) that don't respond to questions about SR shaving with anything ranging from a quizzical look followed by the predictable "why on earth would you bother with that?" to ghastly expressions of horror and terror and the denouncement of these "deathtraps". perhaps that's just queensland...
you have no idea how greatful i am for the forums here and the posts of experience and shared knowledge that have helped me out along the way.
i did speak to the guy that runs the razor shop in town though, and he told me he knew an ancient barber that honed straights you bought into the store. he charges quite a lot though, and does it at his leisure, so it can take anywhere up to 4 weeks or more to get the job done. sadly this puts me out of his sphere of contact, however my next question is to anyone in the brisbane area. has anyone taken advantage of this service and is it worth doing at $50 a pop? (keeping in mind i have a blade that needs to be taken all the way back and honed "from scratch").
i'm prattling now, but in relation to the article, it sounds like a fairly typical response from someone who would rather you pay them to hold a "deadly blade" to your face and throat.
FIGHT THE POWERS THAT BE!
gotta love PE...

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Originally Posted by Bart

Cheers for emailing the journalist, Bruno. Maybe you'll get an interview.:gl:
Where was the article published?

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Het nieuwsblad, 09 Mei
Het Nieuwsblad - Scheren volgens de regels van de kunst

No replies so far, but it's still monday morning.

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Originally Posted by Ximeljef

however my next question is to anyone in the brisbane area. has anyone taken advantage of this service and is it worth doing at $50 a pop? (keeping in mind i have a blade that needs to be taken all the way back and honed "from scratch").

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PM Jimbo- he's in Aus. but I don't think Brisbane. He could point you in the right direction though or help you out.

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Originally Posted by Rajagra

This is why I don't place too much trust in experts. Just because it's their job and they have qualifications, it doesn't mean they are always right. Often all it means is they can express a wrong opinion without fear of being challenged.

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There is a difference between a true expert and a self-proclaimed expert.

True experts are hard to find. They are usually quite learned about the subject and have shaped the face of the field of expertise in some sort of way. Also, they usually have some sort of technical writing about the subject which is accepted by their peers as being accurate and this writing is usually used as a baseline for future work.

Self-proclaimed experts are a dime a dozen. We even have some that post here ... lol.

Experience alone does not qualify one as an expert. More times than not, field experience is the end-all be-all for 'expert' status ... which is inaccurate and misleading. Being a user of information is much different than being the developer of the information.


I don't even feed the ego of the self-proclaimed expert with the acknowldgement of referring to him/her as an expert. I use other terms that I feel to be more accurate.

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Originally Posted by Rajagra

This is why I don't place too much trust in experts.

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An "expert" is someone from out of town carrying a briefcase... :D

Cheers Alex! Will do. Thanks a heap.

What an odd comment to make coming from a barber.?? Hopefully no one will take that seriously.

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Originally Posted by dward

An "expert" is someone from out of town carrying a briefcase... :D

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I thought an expert was someone who made six consecutive correct guesses.
The 'Titanic' was built by professionals, the 'Ark' by an amateur.

I got word back from the journalist. He told me that he had gone forth on the opinion of 2 experts, but that he now knew (because of me) that shaving with a straight is possible.

I had the vague impression that it was just a 'yeah whatever' reply that he probably has in stock for every time he gets contacted by a nutter. :D
But my mail wa spolite, so who knows... maybe he'll at least remember if he ever gets to do something shaving related.

Nothing from the barbership so far.

What a pile of nonsense.

My Grandfather was a reputed barber in Glasgow all his working life quite well known by local celebrity.
I know for a fact he always shaved himself with a straight

Joey

An interesting thing...my nephew and father both had straight shaves recently...both thought that they got the full treatment...both "experienced" an old time shave stropping included....nope it was just in their minds as the barber used a shavette! :w

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Originally Posted by JoeyGargano

My Grandfather was a reputed barber in Glasgow all his working life quite well known by local celebrity.
Joey

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What part of Glasgow? My mother-in-law was from Glasgow, we have quite a few relatives still there.

My Grandparents lived in Springburn in Ballonock, but I'm no sure which part of town he worked, can find out though. There's a guy called Gordon Smith known as the psychic barber (distant relative) who was trained by grand pop, not sure he can give straight shaves though?

Joey

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Originally Posted by The0ctopus

this is the kind of nonsense that i was increasingly hearing from barbers around town, when justifying why they had switched to disposable blades,

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Originally Posted by DavidM

as the barber used a shavette! :w

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in defense of barbers using shavettes... it's the LAW in many states, they can lose their license for using a normal straight on more than one person. they have to use a disposable blade not for sharpness reasons, but for cross contamination reasons.

Yeah, health regulations pretty much force people to use shavettes.
Using real straights brings a lot of pain with it in many countries.