19th century Ebay razor? Please, help me identify this.

I'm hoping some here will be able to shed some light on a razor I purchased off Ebay.
It's a razor that looks to be made out of stainless and after having received it, proves to be in great shape. However, there are absolutely no markings on the blade indicating where it was made, with the only marking on the stainless (?) handle with a snake and a crown.

I'll include the description from the seller as well as some photos. Hopefully, someone may have run across one of these before. As for the box, there's never any proof that it originally came with the razor, but the seller indicates that it did.

Thanks in advance!

[19th century Russian Army Officer's straight razor. This straight razor was issued to the Czar's officers in the late 19th century. Comes with its two compartment case, one compartment for the razor in use and the other for the one sent out to be sharpened. Note debossed markings on case. Not pristine but razor in pretty good shape, case somewhat tattered and stained.]

http://i2.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/08/77/33_1.JPG?set_id=7

http://i15.ebayimg.com/02/i/05/00/a3/bd_1.JPG?set_id=7

http://i1.ebayimg.com/02/i/05/01/85/4f_1.JPG?set_id=7

http://i14.ebayimg.com/02/i/05/00/63/cc_1.JPG?set_id=7

WOW .... Russian razors are not often, if not really rarely, covered in the literature. I think you may have a collectible prize.

daviduthe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hungryboxerdog

I'm hoping some here will be able to shed some light on a razor I purchased off Ebay.
It's a razor that looks to be made out of stainless and after having received it, proves to be in great shape. However, there are absolutely no markings on the blade indicating where it was made, with the only marking on the stainless (?) handle with a snake and a crown.

I'll include the description from the seller as well as some photos. Hopefully, someone may have run across one of these before. As for the box, there's never any proof that it originally came with the razor, but the seller indicates that it did.

Thanks in advance!

[19th century Russian Army Officer's straight razor. This straight razor was issued to the Czar's officers in the late 19th century. Comes with its two compartment case, one compartment for the razor in use and the other for the one sent out to be sharpened. Note debossed markings on case. Not pristine but razor in pretty good shape, case somewhat tattered and stained.]

http://i2.ebayimg.com/03/i/05/08/77/33_1.JPG?set_id=7

http://i15.ebayimg.com/02/i/05/00/a3/bd_1.JPG?set_id=7

http://i1.ebayimg.com/02/i/05/01/85/4f_1.JPG?set_id=7

http://i14.ebayimg.com/02/i/05/00/63/cc_1.JPG?set_id=7

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Now is it me or ......
Tszars were rulers of the old Russia, pre WW1 for the ease of things.
The symbols used would have been Ceryllic?

In that time frame, and after seeing Reval is a place in Estonia my guess would be old Prussian (Germany, Kaizer Wilhelm).

That was my 2 bits of info on this.

Luck on finding more info,
Hoekie

I was about to make the same remark about cyrilic markings...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by superfly

I was about to make the same remark about cyrilic markings...

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My read was, if the case is original to the instrument, they were made in Germany under contract to the Russian royals .....

European history is one of the things on my list to get around to, but weren't the pre-WW1 European royal families all somewhat related ..... like over-and-over-again

Never thought I'd ever use this stuff during history classes. lol

But ok.

As with all Royalties, yes, inbreds often. :-D

But if you look at history, 19th century, this either means early (which I doubt because of e.g. the full metal razor, metal was used for arms) and during the Napoleon era, making it very unlikely, or the latter half of that century.

If it were the latter part of the century and we were in the middle of The Prussian wars, ultimately causing WW1. Again quite unlikely.

Then the engraving, a crown and a snake.
A crown only would have been used for items used by the royalty. To the best of my knowledge those days were the last generation of Romanovs, and the "R" was used to symbolise this (probably in Cyrillic). Considering this, the snake is not logical either, as the Romanovs used a double-headed-eagle.

Let me ask a question as well.

How many full metal razors do you know from that time period, but than in the US? If any, wouldn't they have been decorated to emphasize it's value? Together with that, how much ore would be "wasted" (in the eyes of a ruler) if such a gigantic army would be issued full metal razors (even if just the officers)?

If it is from that time period, and from that area, your best chance would be in the "Austria-Hungary" corner (but again the doubts because of the razor being completely metal).

Just some thoughts.

Hoekie

That razor looks awesome, but yeah, despite my limited knowledge, it doesn't really appear as though it's from that era. I'm curious to know its real origins, though.

Thanks for the info so far.

As for the razor being stainless, in retrospect I believe I was incorrect. On the handle near the pivot pin, there's a speck of rust, as well as what appears to be a very inconspicuous yet noticeable-upon-close-inspection spot of "bubbling" on the inside of the scale that I've seen before on items that were plated, especially nickel plated.

I'm going to glean more info from the web, but there's not a whole lot to go on when all you've got is a symbol of a snake, scepter and crown. I might contact the seller out of curiousity and ask were they obtained their info. As for a shaver, it easily developed a keen edge after a few swipes on a paddle strop with .5 micron paste and gave a wonderful shave. I'm quite please with the razor, which cost me $30.

Thanks again for the help and any additional info anyone may be able to offer.

Whoever made it, thats a nice looking razor. I had an old French army straight that had a metal handle like that, but it is long gone so don't know if it had a symbol or not. Also isn't a snake on a pole sortof a universal medical symbol?
Anyway nice razor, let us know if you find anything else about it.
John P.

Yeah, either way, it's a nice looking razor.

If it turns out it was made by a Paki or something, just continue to tell people a made up story.

Maybe a Russian soldier was carrying it on his person in October of 1917, and because he had been up all night participating in a vodka drinking competition with his comrades, he was hung over and hardly saw the pitchfork coming.

I guess the idea for the compostion is not all that recent

http://www.wildwinds.com/aca/ric/sep...shmov_3011.jpg

I have doubts from what I've learned that it really is a razor from the days of the Czars, but I'm sure it's not a Pakistani either as it doesn't appear to be anything made in the past 20 years or so (plus, it shaves sweet).

It is a bit annoying I can't get an exact fix when and where this razor was made, but when all you know is there's a snake-coiled scepter below a crown on what appears to be a nickel-plated handle, I suppose I shouldn't expect a definitive answer unless I happen to stumble upon it.

Until then, I'll just use it for what it does best... I'll shave with it! :D

Any clue on the technique used for the engraving (etching, scratching etc. etc.)? Is the black filled in and can it be cleaned or is that the base metal (if base metal and not stainless there will be rust). That might get you somewhere.

De Medical snake and staff have not been around that long, I think us 20th century -ers have made that one up (with all the other kinds of crosses, blue green etc.).

The using of snakes/serpents/dragons dates back, well millennia as far as I know. The snake/serpent eating it's own tail has been found in old Celtic findings (as a ring), and in Egypt and old Greece. After The Romans the serpent slowly became unpopular/unused. This can be related to the bible and religion. The snake in the tree in the Garden of Eden. There ended the worshipping, and started the fear.

I know they were used in Asia and Southern America as well, but my "knowledge" stops with "Greater Europe" on this matter.

Ehat a topic for a Sunday morning whilst I am taking my first sip of coffee after this. whaaaaah (how will I make it to the chat ...... anybody any spare viles of efidrine???)

Have a peaceful Sunday.
Hoekie

Edit:

See I needed that sip of coffee.
You should be able to get it carbon dated if you really want to know. Enjoy it.

I emailed the fellow who auctioned this razor about how he was able to obtain the information he did, this was his reply:

"Hi, The razor belonged to an Estonian man by the name of Eduard
Einamann who actually served in the czar's army around the turn of the
last century when Estonia was under Russian rule. The marking "Reval"
on the case indicates the city of Tallinn which was called Reval by the
Germans. My father acquired the razor from Mr. Einamann who was a
friend of his until he died in the 70s. I'm afraid I don't know much
more than that.
Cheers,
Sven"

Seems a stand up guy with great feedback. I'm still going to hunt around for more info, but for now it's in my shave rotation.

Era of Russification (1885--mid-1890s)

Russian nationalism strengthened in order to tie the peripheral provinces to the centre. Alexander III who came to the throne of Russia in 1881, refused the Baltic-German aristocracy its class privileges. Although the Baltic-Germans' special status was restricted through reforms by the central powers, the intense Russification policies also suppresed the activities of the era of awakening. Russian became the language in government institutions and schools, local authorities became increasingly under the control of the Russian centre, the importance of the Russian officialdom increased. Organizations in the national movement were closed down, censorship became stricter, conversion to the Russian Orthodox Church was encouraged in a further attempt to Russify the indigenous population. The society was characterized by resignation, internal conflicts, lack of activity and going with the Russification to some extent.

The Development of a Civic Society (mid-1890s--1917)

When the Russification policies expired in 1897; 986,000 people lived in Estonia -- 90.6% were Estonians, with a 77.7% literacy rate (96.2% were able to read but not to write). Development began in the metal and machinery industries, cotton and wood processing industries were established. Tallinn became an important industrial centre besides Narva. Estonia was one of the most industrialized areas in the Russian Empire, but the industries operated in the interests of Russia -- with Russian raw materials and work-force, and the main markets being in Russia. In agriculture, there was a change of emphasis from grain growing to the dairy industry, peasants became stratified. Agricultural cooperatives flourished, farmers' associations were formed.

Draw your own conclusions I'd say (on eg. letters used, 19th century dating of the razor etc.).

Good luck,

Hoekie