mint and functionality...

I'm trying to establish how closely the 'mintness' of a razor is tied to its functionality. if the two are unrelated, i can go on not caring about mintness; i'm learning that the two are related, though, which is why razors are nothing like surfboards (in the case of surfboards the mintness and functionality are unrelated).


Edit by JLStorm: Cyrano, I moved these posts from your other thread into this one so that other members would have a better idea of your initial question and comparison. Hopefully this is ok with you, if not let me know and I will delete them.

I'll try and help out here, maybe this will help.

Main Entry: 4mint
Function: adjective
: unmarred as if fresh from a mint <in mint condition>

Mint, Minty, or Mintiness all refer to the condition of the razor

• Mint: The razor has never been used, period.
• Minty: The razor has been used, tested, honed, etc...but you cant tell because it is still in "mint" condition but IT IS NOT MINT (especially if honed)
• Mintiness: should be reserved for chewing gum or breath mints...if it is even mentioned in an auction I wont bid just out of sheer annoyance.

A cheap razor like a pakastani can be in mint condition, it is simply a brand new unused crappy razor as opposed to a used crappy razor. Your shave will be just as bad but you will get the satisfaction of knowing you are getting a really bad shave with a completely unused razor

So no Mint condition does not equal a good razor or good shave. I have gotten razors in "good" condition that are shave ready and are great shavers. I have razors that I bought in mint condition that have been used quite a bit and honed and are now in very good condition, they are great shavers.


One other thing about Mint condition that may be debatable is if the razor is shave ready...a honed shave ready razor is technically no longer a mint item because it has been honed after leaving the factory, but most people let this one slide...its all on your intentions I suppose

jl, if you followed me over here, this is what i'm saying:

if you list the functional properties of a razor, somewhere on that list there must be an expectancy for how long a razor will last. and, at the very least, that is related to mintness. the less mint a razor is, the less life it has left in it, no matter how well you take care of it since the act of maintaining a razor involves eroding the metal that composes it.

so even a crap pakistani razor that has almost no functionality will become less functional as it is used. just because it starts low doesn't mean there isn't a correlation between them.

i see that if you're talking about the usefulness of a razor at this instant, there doesn't have to be a correlation. but if you consider the amount of use you'll get out of a razor over time, a mint razor is more useful than a non-mint one, if all other properties are the same.

maybe i'm just arguing technicalities, but from a practical standpoint, if you had a choice between two razors (for shaving, not collecting) that were very similar in all other ways, except that one was mint and the other had been used for fifty years, you'd probably pick the mint one. when i was saying surfboards were different, it was because, if a surfboard were a razor, you could put the metal back onto it.

i will definitely give you the argument, though, since i'm sure since situations like the one above are rarely encountered outside of hypothetical discussions. that's all i wanted to say about it. i guess this really should have been a pm, but in case anyone was curious (i realize how remote that possibility is), i figured they could read it here.

for most purposes if I had two razors and one was mint and the other wasnt I would prefer the mint razor...however here are some considerations:

• A mint razor is not shave ready
• A mint NOS (new old stock) razor may be out of my price range while a 50 year old used razor is not.
• I prefer older razors such as those made in the 1800's, I enjoy knowing that they were used 100 - 200 years ago by someone else and made by hand. I honestly would probably pay more for a like new condition or restored razor used by someone in the 1800's than I would for one found in a box that was never unwrapped.

But for simplicity, if money is not a concern and you are able to get a razor shave ready or know someone else who can, and you have two razors in front of you one which is mint and one which is not, the mint one obviously has more life left in it and is in better shape.

good points. i guess in a careful argument, we would have had to start by defining what we mean when we say 'functionality.' but i can definitely see what you're saying now and i think your point is well taken. oh, and thanks for stepping in and moving the posts.

I find that Mint razors are easier for new people to hone than some of the older razors with use or significant prior use. A mint razor usually only takes minimal honing to make it shave ready and so long as you are buying a German, French, US or Maestro made razor, you should be ready to shave in short order.

Lynn

According to the dictionary there is no such thing as mintiness, not even with chewing gum.

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Originally Posted by HoekmanX

According to the dictionary there is no such thing as mintiness, not even with chewing gum.

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Tell that to Ebay...

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Originally Posted by adjustme69

I find that Mint razors are easier for new people to hone than some of the older razors with use or significant prior use. A mint razor usually only takes minimal honing to make it shave ready and so long as you are buying a German, French, US or Maestro made razor, you should be ready to shave in short order.

Lynn

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What about English made?

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Originally Posted by JLStorm

Tell that to Ebay...

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Can't imagine the company ebay using that word, a less educated seller maybe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adjustme69

I find that Mint razors are easier for new people to hone than some of the older razors with use or significant prior use. A mint razor usually only takes minimal honing to make it shave ready and so long as you are buying a German, French, US or Maestro made razor, you should be ready to shave in short order.

Lynn

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Lynn,

I think this goes more to the heart of what Cyrano138 is asking than a lot of the other information offered here.

Cyrano, the real trick with a mint razor (provided it's a well made, quality razor) is that the spine/edge angular relationship is exactly (or at least as close as possible) as the blade was designed to be. No one has mis-honed, or in any other way, altered the critical angles that make the blade perform as it's designed. Even a professionally honed razor won't radically alter that relationship for many years of normal use.

When you have a blade that is visibly altered from the original shape, the angular relationship has been seriously altered, and isn't constant across the entire edge, as most razors should be.

Very early blade designs were wedge shaped (straight sided, or no concave grind), but they were wider at the toe of the blade than at the heel. In other words, you had convergent top and bottom lines, instead of the top and bottom lines being essentially parallel. Even the heavy wedge blades made in the 19th century in Sheffield, with their pronounced "smile" profile, had the spine and edge in pretty close alignment, although on an arc.

Virtually none of the blades that I've seen sold as "minty", unless New Old Stock (NOS) blades, have the really correct relationship of a truly MINT blade. There are, of course, exceptions to the rule, but I've seen too many blades with a straight spine and either a smiling or frowning profile advertised as "minty".

Long story made short, unless you have a really refined honing technique, any blade that isn't close to MINT will be much more difficult to achieve a good shaving edge with, primarily due to the varying angular relationship. As one develops more skill in honing, the more difficult edges become easier to deal with, bjut they defineitely aren't for most beginners.

In the arena of functionality, you can see that blades that aren't MINT, or close to it, can be significantly less functional for a new shaver, or anyone who isn't skilled at honing.

I think that if we were all concerned about razors being mint we would all just buy new razors and not mess with the Eboy stuff.

To me if your talking mint vs nonmint its mainly appearances. The mint razor looks prettier and will require less work to bring it back to its original appearance.

If you want to talk about functionality then its not a matter of mint vs nonmint its the degree of wear the razor has. A razor can be far from mint yet still be highly functional. I've seen razors that looked mint yet had maybe one defect like a huge chip in it and I've seen ancient razors that required a little TLQ and they were basically new again. The classic case to me was the guy who bought a very expensive razor that came still sealed in the original box, never used or even touched by human hands and while fondling his new razor dropped it on a concrete floor and lost about a 2 inch piece of the edge. So, would that still be a mint razor? And no it wasn't me!

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

The classic case to me was the guy who bought a very expensive razor that came still sealed in the original box, never used or even touched by human hands and while fondling his new razor dropped it on a concrete floor and lost about a 2 inch piece of the edge. So, would that still be a mint razor? And no it wasn't me!

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Did you cry along side with him? :eek:

i would say, for the sake of defining it to discuss, that as mint-ness increases, the closeness of the razor to its original factory condition increases, with a completely mint razor being exactly as it was when it left the maker's hands. so, no, the guy who dropped his razor no longer owns a mint razor. he owns an unused razor, but use is not the only way to diminish mint-ness. anyway, my original question refers to mint as i've defined it here, if that helps. in reference to what the big spendur said, i would think everyone here would agree that use, no matter how professional or careful the honing and shaving, diminishes mint-ness simply because any kind of use removes metal from the razor, diminishing the number of times it may be used again.

thanks for all the info and good discussion, everyone.