The Mach Delivers ?!

Taking a week off from the straight to give a 'cut' which I don't even remember happening until a day later when a 1 inch line in my right side burn appeared and manifested itself into what looks like must have been a cut or at the very least a close call a chance to heal.

Pulled out the old mach which I haven't used since 6 months and almost forgot how. A good Proraso preshave and lathering with Martin De Candre as is the usual routine, skipping the hot towel since the prep was already starting to feel over the top for a cartridge. Two easy passes to BBS with absolutely no irritation in under a minute. Splash on the aftershave which normally gives a light sting with no such burn not even a tingle and smooth over some calypso.

It all has me worried... a great shave that was almost too easy ?! I know I am still but a trike amongst the motorbikes of straight razor skills but it has put me on notice and I am wondering if there really is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy the routine of the straight and other then this incident I have been getting consistent good shaves with one but this mach shave is really very very smooth, more so then anything I was labeling as BBS before and with not a lick of trouble.

It just has me wondering, that's all...

If you prefer the Mach, stick with it

The straight razor is just a piece of steel, as is the mach. If it is honed and stropped to your liking, the sharpness and comfort will be superior, and the straight offers you more freedom of movement during your shave than the mach will due to its lack of safety guards. But getting the better shave from it requires more practice and effort than maxing out your shaves with the mach will so it's up to you to decide whether it's worth it

Communist.... Heretic..... Naw, just joshiing.. Sure, you can get bbs with a mach.. We shave with st8ts for other reasons to complex to list, although i am sure others will chime in... For me it brings me back to a time when pocket watches,pipes, and a good straight were man's best friends... It allows me to step back from my thechnical present with ipods, ipads, and cable tv and sit down and watch (from memory) my grandfather shave with a straight, don his fedora and cane while heading off for the day. It brings back times when a handshake was firm ,calloused, andwas a man's bond... So enjoy your mach my friend..for me; i will stick with my pinoud and straights.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

...If it is honed and stropped to your liking, the sharpness and comfort will be superior...

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i can only believe so and will keep at it... otherwise what would be the point right?

i have by no means given up on straights; i love them and the whole routine of it, but it would be interesting to hear the reaction of others on this forum if they put down their straight for a week and picked the mach back up to see how it compares for them. granted the process of the straight has lots of facets to it that as well add to the enjoyment of the shave but based on just the end result of the quality of the shave it would be interesting to hear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wintchase

Communist.... Heretic..... Naw, just joshiing.. Sure, you can get bbs with a mach.. We shave with st8ts for other reasons to complex to list, although i am sure others will chime in... For me it brings me back to a time when pocket watches,pipes, and a good straight were man's best friends... It allows me to step back from my thechnical present with ipods, ipads, and cable tv and sit down and watch (from memory) my grandfather shave with a straight, don his fedora and cane while heading off for the day. It brings back times when a handshake was firm ,calloused, andwas a man's bond... So enjoy your mach my friend..for me; i will stick with my pinoud and straights.

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To be clear all of these are also reasons for me enjoying the str8. The quality of shave is my question here having clearly not yet reached the level of str8 god to be able to say which is better. Am hoping people here will chime in on the end result quality of shave differences. People who have recently reverted and made an honest comparison.

By the way, Pinoud works either way and one should use the same products they are comfortable with outside the razor itself to make an honest comparison. I will never be without Proraso or Martin De Candre ;)

I had to use my Mach when I vacationed in Costa Rica this summer. I didn't want one of my other razors to be confiscated by the TSA.

I worked, and gave a good shave, but it was not as comfortable. It wasn't much faster either. I have to go slow and be very careful with a cartridge or it will irritate the hell out of my face. Also, I end up with my neck only halfway shaved - can't go against the grain with a cartridge or I get tragic irritation.

I am off cartridges for ever. If I need to shave faster, I use one of my DE's. Those are definitely superior to cartridges. More comfortable and can shave almost as close as a straight, if you get a Merkur slant or the new Muhle R41. I have and recommend both. Try one, you won't be disappointed.

Whether I use my straights or DE's, one of the things that I really appreciate is that I'm shaving with a work of art. It's not a crusty, cheap piece of plastic.

Also, what I really hated about the Mach cartridges was that although they start off very sharp, they clog immediately and dull after just a few shaves. The first shave is okay, but if you want to get any value out of them you need to be able to get at least 5 shaves out of a cartridge. By then, the experience is pretty unpleasant. When Friday rolls around, the five days of irritation have really added up.

To sum up why I only use straights and DE's from here on out:
I get the best shaves I've ever had, without irritation, and for the first time since I started shaving, no more ingrown hairs. Cartridge razors turn my face into a minefield of ingrowing hairs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MinATX

..and for the first time since I started shaving, no more ingrown hairs.

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Now this is the sort of analytic response I am looking for, something to give me a basis for comparison along my journey...

I do remember have more ingrown hairs come to think of it. In terms of number of shaves I seem to remember the mach 3 giving more comfortable shaves and for much longer then the newer mach 5 blades, perhaps the newer blades are thinner to fit more in the head.

I have an EJ89 DE I use to cleanup after the straight which I really enjoy too, gives a great smooth last pass with a feather blade.

I get razor burn easily from disposables. I think it is the multi blade thing. It lightens somewhat if i use a de. I find that i get a better, closer shave from de's than when I use a str8t. But, i do notice tha i get 5 oclock shadow when i use a de? I don't know why.

I actually wrote a long post on this very topic last winter, when I forgot my DE (my preferred travel razor) while on a trip to Mexico. If you care to read my account here's the link: http://straightrazorpalace.com/gener...evalution.html

Long story short, I found the Mach to be on the bad side of mediocre. No irritation, just uncomfortable and the shave wasn't particularly close. I found a two bladed Bic to be far superior.

I threw my cartridges out probably a month after using a straight and I've never had the need or desire to reconsider. Everybody is different but for me, cartridges yielded poor shaves (in retrospect) even going WTG-only.

I've since picked up a DE to shave my head with and for traveling. FYI: you can carry-on a DE but not the blades. Blades can be bought in pharmacies (e.g. CVS in the US).

I have always managed to get a really good shave with absolutely no irritation from a Mach and a Fusion. In fact I had no idea what Razor Burn was until I started shaving with a Straight. I'm sure it would still be the case If I used a Fusion again.

Having said that, I get a really good shave with a straight and it's much more satisfying, for all sorts of different reasons.

Whenever in doubt, just think of the cost of the replacement cartridges, and the packaging & waste they produce! I'm guilty of keeping a disposable around for shaving my chest, but I find the simple disposable works better than the Mach3.

Have you considered that you know a lot more about shaving properly in general now with regards to pre and post, grain direction stretching etc and that this is why your mach shave was much better?

As Tekbow mentions, and has been noted here before: Shave quality improves with improved technique, regardless of razor used. While my razors were getting their first hone, I was too anxious to wait around and began learning lather and applying shaving techniques to my Fusion/Mach 3 use, and shaves did improve significantly.

Also, while I could get a very fine shave with a Fusion, using soap and brush, and good technique, I could still only get about three good shaves with a cartridge before a rash of ingrown hairs and subsequent irritation set in. Then it was time to pop in a new cartridge. Using 8-10 cartridges a month was more expensive than I could stomach, so I tended to suffer with an irritated neck.

My straights on the other hand will shave for a good month without a touch up honing (which costs me nothing after spending $8 on a Swaty barber hone). I get a clean and irritation free neck for that whole time, and have the added satisfaction of not throwing so much money away each month.

So short answer: I get just as good of a shave with a Mach/Fusion as with my straights.
Long Answer: My shaves are financially, ecologically, and aesthetically superior with my straights.

Peace,
Jim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigJim

So short answer: I get just as good of a shave with a Mach/Fusion as with my straights.
Long Answer: My shaves are financially, ecologically, and aesthetically superior with my straights.

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I would add DE's to this, but this is how I feel!

started straight shaving only about 2 months ago, but before that I shaved with my grandfathers Gillette Slim for a long while. about a month into straight shaving I was really REALLY late to work and decided to pick the DE instead. I got a superior shave to what I remembered from only a month before in terms of closeness, speed, irritation (none) and comfort. and that's using exactly the same DE, blades and cream and brush as before. what I figure is I learned a lot about stretching, prep, growth direction etc from wielding a straight, so that using a DE just got easier and better, too.
the Mach is the same as before. you're not.

Grizli

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Originally Posted by groovyd

...I have an EJ89 DE I use to cleanup after the straight which I really enjoy too, gives a great smooth last pass with a feather blade.

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+1 This is exactly what I do. I love shaving with both straights and double edge razors.

I generally do WTG and XTG with a straight followed by ATG with my EJ89 or Fatboy. Gives me the best of both worlds!

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Originally Posted by tekbow

Have you considered that you know a lot more about shaving properly in general now with regards to pre and post, grain direction stretching etc and that this is why your mach shave was much better?

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could very well be true and thankfully i do not forget so quickly what i have learned ;) it almost felt too prepped though, like it could have given me the same quality shave without all the attention. i actually did consider though that a straight lather like MdC might in fact be too thick and cushioning for a cartridge, to gum up the blades before they even see the hair. I felt the need to rinse after every swipe which I never remember feeling the need for using ultra-x out of the can. Infact it almost felt like the lather was getting in the way of the petty contact of the blades.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by commiecat

I threw my cartridges out probably a month after using a straight and I've never had the need or desire to reconsider. Everybody is different but for me, cartridges yielded poor shaves (in retrospect) even going WTG-only.

I've since picked up a DE to shave my head with and for traveling. FYI: you can carry-on a DE but not the blades. Blades can be bought in pharmacies (e.g. CVS in the US).

---

I had the same question to the TSA during my last flight... they indicated a DE would be fine and actually said it probably would not even get noticed on the carry on which surprised me. I have a EJ89 but I really should branch out and try more. Would like to get a feather and an old school 60's fatboy adjustable. Would love to try the new SS feather str8 with the disposible blades.

I've been using my straight for a month now, but a few days ago used my old DE. I was amazed at how easy it was to use the DE. But it was easier even than when I used a DE on a daily basis. I also mentioned to my better half that I thought my beard was growing out a bit differently than when I used a DE. Seems more even. As a result of these two observations, I think that using a straight has either changed my beard or the way I shave.

I have too much fun with the straight to ever go back to using a DE on a regular basis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grizli

started straight shaving only about 2 months ago, but before that I shaved with my grandfathers Gillette Slim for a long while. about a month into straight shaving I was really REALLY late to work and decided to pick the DE instead. I got a superior shave to what I remembered from only a month before in terms of closeness, speed, irritation (none) and comfort. and that's using exactly the same DE, blades and cream and brush as before. what I figure is I learned a lot about stretching, prep, growth direction etc from wielding a straight, so that using a DE just got easier and better, too.
the Mach is the same as before. you're not.

Grizli

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true, before i would have never even cared to present the question. i would not have even had anything to compare against. that is one thing that to me makes learning str8s great, is that you have an experience most people do not and that you can pass judgement on which is better or not. a subject that the 99 percentile has no clue anything about. to most (and to me pre str8) the only shave cream comes from a can. such a legacy that the masses are passing by.

I started SR shaving on Aug 21, 2011 I think. Never will I go back to a machx with goo. The first week or three I had to do touch ups on "date night", but I bought a TI in the end of august and have not looked back. Something about using a SR is just relaxing. I used to have a bit of a pimple problem, now they are gone, only problems I have are cuts.... but they are going away with time. I used to hate shaving and would only do it once or twice a week, now I do it almost everyday, if I do a one pass. When I try to get a bbs I wont shave for 2 probably.

The pot of gold isn't just the quality of the shave. BBS is BBS whether it's a straight or a Mach3. The pot of gold is the pleasure in standing in front of the bathroom mirror, with a razor that's 150 or so years old, that you honed yourself and just enjoying the experience of shaving yourself with it. Think about what the world was like when that razor was made. How many people have used it? Who were they and what was happening in their lives at the time? In this fast paced world, it's great to spend 20 minutes of "me" time shaving in the morning before heading out to work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by groovyd

I had the same question to the TSA during my last flight... they indicated a DE would be fine and actually said it probably would not even get noticed on the carry on which surprised me. I have a EJ89 but I really should branch out and try more. Would like to get a feather and an old school 60's fatboy adjustable. Would love to try the new SS feather str8 with the disposible blades.

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Obviously it's always up to the TSA inspector but I usually fly out of our little airport here in Gainesville and bring an empty DE carry-on. Surprisingly I've never had it looked at, inspected, or been questioned.

Please suffer a "noob" to chime in, as this thread is highly interesting.

I'm a recent SR convert, but I've been unable to get the BBS results between neck and jawline with the straight. It's agonizing to make the ATG pass below the jawline--it really tears up my face, and the long SR blade is difficult to manage at that awkward angle. Consequently, I can't get a full BBS reduction with the straight, which has been disappointing.

The closest, cleanest shave for me has been with cheap store-brand, triple-blade disposables with the lanolin strip. About a buck each, no irritation and the shaves are close enough to last two days. Try using them with a guillotine/diagonal stroke, up and down in an X-pattern. Also, try using fingertip control to make a scything stroke. Use a feather-light touch. The reduction you can get is amazingly complete and silky.

HOWEVER... like most of you, I'm addicted to the other aspects of SR shaving: collecting vintage blades, honing, soaps, fragrances, etc., not to mention the indulgence of a 25 minute spa treatment with hot towels, balms, etc. Then, there's the actual act of precisely drawing a bare blade over the face. Makes you feel a kinship to granddad and his pals who came of age when men were men. Gives you a sense of having cultivated a rare skill.

So for me, it looks like I'll have to keep some triple-track disposables around for the BBS finish. But I'll always enjoy shaving with a straight a couple or three times a week.

Sounds not unlike some of the other replies in this thread. Anybody else have a similar experience?

groovyd,
Definitely the Mach is the way to go for you. Send the straights to me, I'll even cover the postage. I'll send you periodic reports and photos of them playing with the other straights in my collection.
I live by the code, "Save a Mach; Adopt a straight."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hirlau

groovyd,
Definitely the Mach is the way to go for you. Send the straights to me, I'll even cover the postage. I'll send you periodic reports and photos of them playing with the other straights in my collection.
I live by the code, "Save a Mach; Adopt a straight."

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sounds fair enough huh ? ;)

I iam a str8 addict so no worries here that I will ever back down, just trying to better understand the true results across the experience of this great forum. Where else could you get so many great thoughtful replies to help guide your adventure into a new world. This is a great great group guys, really thank you everyone for all your ideas and words.

one thing to consider about the mach vs. straight, if you're like me you haven been shaving that long with straights, and that means that you previously shaved with mach-esque type safety razors for a long long time. Lets face it we got some serious skills with a mach. The straight, not so much. I had a similar experience (had to ship off my razors to be honed) today and thought the same thing, but I remembered that when I first started shaving I wasn that good at it and didnt get BBS shaves for a while. It made me feel real good about using straights. I also noticed that shaving with a mach again after shaving with straights felt like shaving with a fisher price toy. Theres just something strangely nostalgic in a manly way about shaving with a straight.

So the third and final shave with the mach this week has the cartridge starting to tug and take small bites here and there... no weepers but not 'irritation free' any more. As well there is a bump forming on my chin that is pretending to be something like an ingrown hair but might also be just a deep pimple forming. Let it be known this cartridge (orange mach 5 sensor) was not brand new at the start of the week and I forget how many shaves it already had but I would say maybe 2. So if my memory serves me 5 shaves and you are either going to start getting irritated or replace the blade. I was thinking to extend the experiment into next week using a new blue mach 5 fusion blade, the newer ones they say is even better to see how many shaves the blade gets before it starts to pull.

I am kinda missing the str8 though during this experiment and the experience of the shave is not at all the same. Kinda boring, generic, toy-like as others have said. I almost miss the sting of a good aftershave following a str8 that I am not getting with the mach.

Well, I commend you for taking a real look at it. There is a sense in which cartridge razors are a pariah around these parts. If you do review a new cartridge, be sure to update on your findings. It will be interesting information at least, and more fuel for the fire if things turn out bad for the cartridge.

Peace,
Jim

Quote:

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Originally Posted by csrund

Please suffer a "noob" to chime in, as this thread is highly interesting.

I'm a recent SR convert, but I've been unable to get the BBS results between neck and jawline with the straight. It's agonizing to make the ATG pass below the jawline--it really tears up my face, and the long SR blade is difficult to manage at that awkward angle. Consequently, I can't get a full BBS reduction with the straight, which has been disappointing.

The closest, cleanest shave for me has been with cheap store-brand, triple-blade disposables with the lanolin strip. About a buck each, no irritation and the shaves are close enough to last two days. Try using them with a guillotine/diagonal stroke, up and down in an X-pattern. Also, try using fingertip control to make a scything stroke. Use a feather-light touch. The reduction you can get is amazingly complete and silky.

HOWEVER... like most of you, I'm addicted to the other aspects of SR shaving: collecting vintage blades, honing, soaps, fragrances, etc., not to mention the indulgence of a 25 minute spa treatment with hot towels, balms, etc. Then, there's the actual act of precisely drawing a bare blade over the face. Makes you feel a kinship to granddad and his pals who came of age when men were men. Gives you a sense of having cultivated a rare skill.

So for me, it looks like I'll have to keep some triple-track disposables around for the BBS finish. But I'll always enjoy shaving with a straight a couple or three times a week.

Sounds not unlike some of the other replies in this thread. Anybody else have a similar experience?

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You may wish to start your own thread as it doesnt look like you are getting much of a response on this one. I wish I could see your razor and your routine in action, then maybe we could see what the problem is.

Can't say I remember the last time I shaved with a Mach III. Prior to breaking into straight razors, there was a couple years where I was a SE and DE safety razor user. Prior to that a couple years of no shave at all (i.e. the Bobo the Homeless man look.) And prior to that, I was in the military and used a Mach III so I guess it has been at least six and a half years or so. I have no beef with the Mach III or anyone who chooses to use one but I'm not sure I understand why you would do so knowing that more effective alternatives exist (i.e. Gem 1912, Gillette Fat Boy, or any straight out there.) If I needed a travel razor it would likely be one of my safety razors but hey ultimately it's your shave, your choice.

Hey, there's a reason the Mach 3 is such a good seller - marketing and ignorance come to mind initially, but after that we'd have to admit they do work.

But there's no need to wonder why a straight can produce the best possible shave of any shaving equipment. You are in complete control of every aspect of how that blade touches your face. Pressure, speed, angle in the vertical plane, angle in the horizontal place, length of edge touching the face - every aspect is under your control. No other piece of shaving equipment allows for that, that I know of. I mean, you are even in control of how sharp and smooth it is (if you hone).

I think that is why we enjoy it so much - it is the ultimate test of ourselves. In the end, how good the shave is rests solely on our own shoulders. We cannot blame anyone else. There are no Occupational Health and Safety Officers there to cloister us in cotton wool. Just a man, his face, a sharp piece of steel, and his hard-earned skills. It doesn't matter that it is not life and death. What matters is that it is action/consequence. Something I feel is missing in modern society.

So throw away those namby pamby "safety" shavers, pick up your straight with your left hand, grab your cojones in your right, and get to work shaving your face!!!

James.

nun2sharp,

Thanks for the reply. As far as razors, the ones I've been using regularly include a Clauss 5/8 round, Shumate 5/8 square and a Landers Frary & Clark 5/8 round. I actually had what is probably my best str8 shave to date with the LF&C this morning. I tried a quasi "guillotining" stroke to get an ATG component without a direct ATG attack. A friend explained it to me as drawing the blade on a diagonal "as a knife cutting bread." (I believe that's the quote from a barber's instructional manual.)

I know that some people frown on this type of stroke due to safety concerns, but it did seem to make a difference. Much closer shave, no irritation (and no cuts).

I'm inclined to continue refining this technique, but not if I'm begging for a scar. Much obliged if you'd like to share any thoughts. I'll take your advise and start a new thread as well.

Cheers!

Today was the first shave with the new mach pro glide super whatever and I made sure to do the full prep including towels and proraso:

- Hot Shower with hair conditioner soak
- Proraso Pre while building the lather (my go to)
- Proraso Green Tea For Sensitive Skin (not the most cushion but appropriate for a cartridge and despite that continues to impress me still)
- Plisson Mountain Badger in Horn (luxurious)
- Hot Towel
- 3 Pass WTG, XTG, ATG (usually get WTG & XTG with straight switching to DE for ATG)
- Alum (not a bit of sting)
- Cold Rinse & Dry
- Thayers Unscented Witch Hazel
- Proraso Post (same stuff as Pre)


http://brightsrestaurant.com/mach_pro.jpg

Turned out my closest most irritation free shave ever. Not even a tingle by the alum in the end. If I can achieve half of this shave someday with a straight I am looking forward to that day. It will be interesting to see how long this cartridge gives a good shave. I suspect 6 shaves over 2 weeks.

you're lucky. 6 shaves barely gets me to the weekend...

Grizli

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grizli

you're lucky. 6 shaves barely gets me to the weekend...

Grizli

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LOL, yeah with a name like Grizli I can believe it ;)

I used a Mach III for kicks a few weeks ago and got a wonderful shave myself as well. I feel bad for using one because the shaves I used to have with it was the reason I went to wet shaving in the first place. I guess I've learned so much about soaps and brushes a long with good prep that the tool to get the shave really isn't as important as I once thought....

I still shave with a straight every day and it's because it's just so much more fun to do so!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Disburden

I used a Mach III for kicks a few weeks ago and got a wonderful shave myself as well. I feel bad for using one because the shaves I used to have with it was the reason I went to wet shaving in the first place. I guess I've learned so much about soaps and brushes a long with good prep that the tool to get the shave really isn't as important as I once thought....

I still shave with a straight every day and it's because it's just so much more fun to do so!

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am agreeing more and more with this every day. infact today just arrived a few flea-bay W&B and a Parker so there is a good chance I will never give up on straights. regardless of the quality of the shave they have a host of beauty that the cartridges just can't compete with. now that iridium or whatever it is with sapphire blades, that might throw the mach gauntlet down for good... itching to bite the bullet and put down the $2k on the cheap one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Disburden

I used a Mach III for kicks a few weeks ago and got a wonderful shave myself as well. I feel bad for using one because the shaves I used to have with it was the reason I went to wet shaving in the first place. I guess I've learned so much about soaps and brushes a long with good prep that the tool to get the shave really isn't as important as I once thought....

I still shave with a straight every day and it's because it's just so much more fun to do so!

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When you think about your past shaves, it's good to remember that Gillette (and Schick, etc.) sells a SYSTEM. Some claim you don't even need a cream, the moisture strip is all you need to shave. When they do promote a cream, it's the canned gel. But in both cases what they're selling is a quick and easy system, no prep needed, no hassle, wipe and go. So I wouldn't feel guilty if I were you (I don't feel guilty!). Prep and lather and stretching will do a lot for any shave. But they're part of the wet-shave system, not Gillette's Mach X speed shave system.

FWIW!

Peace,
Jim