RE: The Potential of Black Arkansas & Translucent as a Razor Finisher

Rather than highjack another thread, I hope that I can pull this side conversation to a separate thread here.

There seems to be the widely held opinion that Japanese Naturals, Eschers, Thuringians, and the finest Coticules are the "bees knees" of finishing hones for razors.

Is it possible that some Black Arkansas and/or Translucent hones have the ability to add something desirable to an edge that has already been worked up by either a Japanese Natural, Escher, Thuringian, or high quality Coticule?

Most here take a pass on the Arkansas hones, but I know there are a few members who use them. These hones interest me greatly, and I am ever curious about the potential of the very best Arkansas hones. If you have a super fine Arkansas hone that is most excellent, please show pictures of it.

Get yourself a translucent or a surgical and take a crack at finishing a razor on them. I have both and do not use them.

I think it comes down to personal preference, all the hones above can give great edges but some can give a better edge.. And as you have said, there a quire a few users on here who do finish on the Arkansas.

I do own a few hard Arkansas stones and have honed a quite few razors on them although for me the cut too slow, the shave doesn't seem as good as some of my other stones, and they can only be used as a finisher which took a little of the fun away.

I prefer the softer stones (Thuringan, Coticules and jnats) as they produce a finer edge, are easy to create a slurry for faster cutting and its easier to reduce this slurry for the final finish. The Jnats I particularly prefer as the grit on a single stone can range so greatly using several nagura stoens. So I can use the one stone for much more of the progression.

But is is preference, if you prefer Arkansas stones use them till your is hearts content.

Below are my two main Arkansas stones.. Surgical Black and Translucent

Attachment 142487

Horses for courses. Also you have to add that as naturals they will still differ one from the other. There is possibility that with specific combination of your arkies and other previous naturals in your set up you still can improve the edge for yourself.
Remember some people like crispier edges and some like them smoother and it not that relevant if your finisher dulled the edge to the final product or not.
Get your paws on some and have, have a go and decide if that works for you.

Since the OP asked for pics, I'll try to oblige.

This is probably the most valuable of my Trans Arkies. It's a very old one with an unfinished bottom (sort of like an old girlfriend of mine). It gave me a ridiculously sharp finish in conjunction with the Nakayama Iromono and Nagura you see there. I don't know if I care for the edges yet, but they certainly were keen:

Attachment 142495

Here's the reverse side:
Attachment 142496

This is a pic, albeit incomplete, of some of the other arks I have. The one all the way to the left is an old, old Washita which I just got and would in no way be a finisher. It's just photobombing the pic. The one next to it is a vintage trans that is my workhorse. Simply love the edges that come off of it. The word that comes to mind is that these edges "glide". I've used it after a VERY hard Nakayama Asagi, a softer Kiita and the Nakayama Iromono you see in the previous pics. No bad results yet.

Attachment 142497

I sent a friend of mine in Asia one of these edges. He's been finishing on film in an all synthetic progression, for about a year. Says he got the best shave he's ever had and he began to ask so many questions about arkie finishes that I just sent him one of my SB's to try. He's getting some interesting but as yet inconclusive data.

Here's a closeup of my two favorites that gives you some idea of the smoothness. One of the things I've been told by people who've been honing for decades is that the edge off of a smoothed arkie, one that's had thousands of laps on it, is significantly different from that has been newly lapped. Even if finished on very high grit abrasive like 2k. I can't confirm this, but it's a widely held opinion.

The SB in this pic is crazy smooth. Both of these rocks seem to improve my edges and I can't tell the difference between them in the final output. I tend to like the black for smaller and lighter blades, but could not tell you why.

Attachment 142498

Here's the finest Arkansas stone I've tested yet. These were called by other names as well. Used with oil. I am like Jerry. I may use on SS or Frozen steel.
Mike

http://i.imgur.com/nZ4XoHL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/SLdLTyT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Jwtm8JX.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MODINE

Here's the finest Arkansas stone I've tested yet. These were called by other names as well. Used with oil. I am like Jerry. I may use on SS or Frozen steel.
Mike

http://i.imgur.com/nZ4XoHL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/SLdLTyT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Jwtm8JX.jpg

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Wow. Sweet looking stone. I haven't seen another one like that.

Mark,

Thanks for starting a new thread. Looking at the stones here, I can see it varies greatly by the Arks the person uses, like any other natural.
It looks like you guys didn't buy your stones off some Arkansas vendor online. When I think Jnats as a final finisher, I'm thinking in the 40k range. I use Nakayama, either Maruka or Maruichi Asagi. They're great finishers. I've never gone to an Arkie after that. I don't see how the edge could get better, but I'm always willing to listen to someone's findings. I think in your case, it has a lot to do with the stones you have. If someone were to go buy an SB, say off Hall's Arkansas stones, I don't think they could get the same results you did, or could they? I'm no Arkie expert, that's for sure.

I'm assuming the SB has to be well used? or well worn. You said thousands of laps? How much work do you need to do on the SB under normal circumstances to surpass the Jnat the edge? I know it varies, so just ballpark?

What would a person need to do to get the edges you speak of. As I said, is it possible with normal SB's bought from an online vendor to surpass Jnat edges or even the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k, etc.....

Very nice stones btw, I really like the Translucent.

I always used the Washita and the Soft Ark on pocket knives. That was good enough, and I didn't bother going to the trans or the black hard with them because I didn't want/need that fine an edge. I have used the trans and/or the black hard on shave ready razors following the Norton 4/8. Used the arks with oil always. I liked the edges the trans and the black produced.

I don't have any j-nats so I can't speak to that. I'd rate the edges I've gotten off of the aforementioned Arks equal to many coticule edges I've gotten but not as fine/sharp/smooth as those off of the y/g Escher or the Suhiro Gokumyo 20k. Not to say that some may have a different impression based on their experience. As always YMMV.

Attachment 142528Attachment 142529Attachment 142530Attachment 142531

Brighty83, that's a nice picture. That's representative of the nicer modern hones being sold in Arkansas right now.

I have 4 Surgical Blacks; a 6x2x1, a 4x2x1, a 4x2.5x.5, and a very small 2x2x1 piece. I also have 2 Translucents; a 6x2x1 Grey, and a 4x2x.5 White. Of these, the 6x2x1 SB seems to be the finest grit stone, but also the slowest cutting stone. All were purchased at knife shops in Arkansas by me personally. Oddly enough, those small knife shops mainly carried Soft and Hard Arkansas stones. I bought the Black and Translucent stones I have at normal "Hard" stone prices. Lucky me. I wish they would have had more stones for me to cherry pick.