Easy question for the belgian coticule and BBW guru's

Hey guys,

Picked up an apparent NOS belgian coticule\BBW glued combo but i waned to know if gluing the BBW and coticule is a newer thing or is there a long history of this being done.

I guess im asking if this really is NOS or NEW

Below are a few pics, it had a stamp on the coticule side but i lapped it before taking a picture.

Attachment 144308Attachment 144309Attachment 144310Attachment 144311

Its a shame the coticule side is so thin but its extreamly hard compared to my other coticule's.
The BBW side turns into an awesome purple when wet :)

Glueing to BBWs was done until X years ago (don't know exact number), when they switched to slate and started selling BBWs as hones rather than reinforcements. Is the BBW slurry purple as well? If it is, I would say this indeed is NOS. If it's white, it's still slate and pretty new.

Yeah, its defenatly a BBW, purple slurry. I have a slate\coticule as well.. I really wish they didnt glue them to slate these days.

So is that the main differance, BBW vs Slate to determin the age?

Perhaps a guru may tell you more about which mine or strata it came from and relate that to a date of mining, but other than that, I don't know.

What did the stamp say

I had one near identical that was ink stamped on the Coticule side "Extra Extra Fine" it was a very nice one

It was an ink stamp, fairly sure it said Belgian extra fine, may have been two extras but I'm not sure.

It's much much finer/harder then my new stone, gives a nice edge! Hairs pop nice and easily without stopping. Can't wait to shave off the blade for the "true" test. :D

In the '80s I bought a few coticules from a few different old barbers. Two were glued to BBW and one natural. The barbers told me that BBW side was not for honing, but only to reinforce the fragile coticule. So at that time honing on the BBW was not widely practiced, if it was done at all. In Belgium they use BBW for stone fences, paving stones, and the like. So gluing a reinforcement to the coticule goes way back.

The realization that the BBW is effective as a hone only came about in the past decade or so AFAIK. I've also read that there are grades of BBW, some suitable for honing, but some is too coarse. Some guys like it as a hone but I quit using the BBW a long while ago. The coticule is much more effective AFAIC.

I recently broke my routine with my honing. The NOS Puma I recently got had no bevel at all to speak of. I set a bevel with the norton 1k, then norton 4k,,,,took the 8k out of the routine, used the purple side of my coticule, then finished with the yellow side of my coticule,,,,ended up with a great smooth shave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hirlau

I recently broke my routine with my honing. The NOS Puma I recently got had no bevel at all to speak of. I set a bevel with the norton 1k, then norton 4k,,,,took the 8k out of the routine, used the purple side of my coticule, then finished with the yellow side of my coticule,,,,ended up with a great smooth shave.

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This is the older way of doing the routine, I also still use it on occasion will the really old Stubtails, it really is a nice gentle progression.. :tu

It's not new and probably not nos either. It's just a nice old coticule :)

This stone is from before 1980 and is glued with Colofonium. See last picture under the stamp.
Between 1980 and 1986 there have been no Coticules produced.
From 1986 to 1998, Burton Rox's did glue non-natural combos with Araldite. It was the intention to get a thin bond line. The coticules were glued to Rouge du Salm. This stone is much redder than the BBW.
After 1998 "Ardennes Coticule" glued non-natural combos with epoxy which has been thickened with a filler.

Henk

The BBW side is nice and thick. Looks like 3/4" of BBW. I have an 8" x 2" x 1/2" BBW myself. If there weren't yellow coticules around to compare to, perhaps BBW would be appreciated more as a waterstone? It sure is a fine finisher for Knives. It's slow though.

My options for Knives, though I never use every stone:
Coarse Silicon Carbide > Fine Silicon Carbide > Soft Arkansas > Fine Aluminum Oxide > Hard Arkansas > Surgical Black Arkansas or Translucent > BBW

Thanks Henk.

Thats very interesting re: the colofonium - or colophony as we call it over here - as an adhesive.

For those not in the know, colophony is a resin derived from pine trees. Violinists use it as rosin. Many people are allergic to it, unfortunately it is found in a great number of household products, even in the adhesive on postage stamps.

Regards,
Neil

“Thats very interesting re: the colofonium - or colophony as we call it over here - as an adhesive.”

Thank God, I thought we were talking about the head of HHS.

My first thought was, Oh No, now they are screwing with regulating Coticules?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neil Miller

Thanks Henk.

Thats very interesting re: the colofonium - or colophony as we call it over here - as an adhesive.

For those not in the know, colophony is a resin derived from pine trees. Violinists use it as rosin. Many people are allergic to it, unfortunately it is found in a great number of household products, even in the adhesive on postage stamps.

Regards,
Neil

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Didn't the Bartmeister post that Ardennes used some beeswax based stuff to glue coticules to whichever base ? IIRC ........ :thinking:

Edit; He did say that but in reference to time past, not what Ardennes is doing ....... http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...tml#post337998

Beeswax is too soft and melt easily. See picture in Musee du Coticule

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Didn't the Bartmeister post that Ardennes used some beeswax based stuff to glue coticules to whichever base ? IIRC ........ :thinking:

Edit; He did say that but in reference to time past, not what Ardennes is doing ....... http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...tml#post337998

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I think that Bart is confusing colophony with beeswax filler.

You have to heat the colophony resin to use it, to make it flow and coat the surfaces, then when it cools it sets hard again. It can be remelted.

Rob from Ardennes told me that they mix (or mixed - can't remember) beeswax with the dust from sawing the coticules and used this to plug small holes, cracks etc - it is just a soft filling agent, not a glue.

Regards,
Neil

what does NOS means?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jelajemi

what does NOS means?

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New Old Stock - Really means in an un-opened un-used condition of an item that is no longer produced

On here it can also mean in "Mint" condition