I have been reading about diamond films. Has anyone had any experience with these? How do they hold up and how well do they work?
Thanks
Jerry1
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I have been reading about diamond films. Has anyone had any experience with these? How do they hold up and how well do they work?
Thanks
Jerry1
Water hones and a few oil stones are for honing straight razors.
Sandpaper is for restoring.
Film is for camera's.
Diamonds are for women and knives.
Once you get the other crazy notions out of your head and conform, you have won half the battle & wasted less $$:borg:
Film works ok. Until you learn to hone off a real stone and see what a difference it is in feel. It tears and scratches easily and the edge is no way as smooth as what you can get off a stone IMO. I have lots if film left over, I honed one on film recently and couldn't believe how harsh the shave was compared to what Ive been getting off of hones. I think shooter is right. I may have gotten a reply like his a while ago, and I should've listened to him!
Thanks a lot. I will stick to stones and strops.
I'm not sure if you are asking about diamond film specifically or the use of lapping film in general.
I have only used one set of diamond film, but found no advantage compared with the standard aluminum oxide film. The diamond sheets are smaller and more expensive, so most people choose the aluminum oxide films. The Al2O3 film is inexpensive enough that I would not be concerned longevity, at least at the 3 micron and finer level. There is no problem going from a DMT 1200 plate to 3 micron film (comparable to a 4k hone).
I have a set of Shapton glass stones, but I do use 0.3 micron film occasionally as a finisher, particularly with one or two wet sheets of paper below and it has provided some excellent results.
Thorlabs - Fiber Polishing Supplies
I have had both good and bad results honing with films. They seem to work better on a straight edge than a smiling edge. I never had much luck setting the bevel with them.
The person who turned me on to films said they left a 'crazy sharp' edge. I would describe it as a very sharp but harsh edge. I'll stick to regular hones, the edges turn out smoother, more keen than with film.
http://smileys.on-my-web.com/reposit...espect-054.gif But I think you missed one :)Quote:
Originally Posted by shooter74743
Lapping films work very nicely. For razors I prefer AlOx 1 micron films, and after having tried dozens of different stones, I still use them. The diamond films, I regularly use them for fine polishing. They are so extremely fast, I fell in love with them. But I don't know how they feel, although a friend from the site said he is very satisfied.
Don't be afraid at all to use films. Easier and cheaper than stones, do last for many honing sessions, fast, and give great edges. If I were to start now to hone razors, with limited budget, I would go for one 1k stone and lapping films.
I would say a 1k chosera, a coti/bbw combo and a hard jnat and lock yourself in a room until you get it! Film leaves such a surgical feeling edge for me anyway.
I too use Aluminum Oxide film from Thor labs, down to .03 um with great results. A progression from a 1k bevel set stone to 3, 5 and 1um work extremely well.
.03um film does make a nice finisher, followed by .125 CBN a very comfortable and keen shaving edge. 1um film and .50, .125 CBN also is a very nice edge.
The one thing I like about film is the straightness of the edge, they also cut very quickly, when compared to stones.
It is just another tool, and a good one at that.
I tried the typical progression of lapping film and found them to be very good at getting a razor sharp. If smoothness and comfortable keenness are your goals this media is not the best way to proceed, the edges are markedly harsh. I would try them anyway, they are relatively inexpensive.
This is interesting. Believers and doubters of films. I am just a beginner so I have much to learn. In a previous life I used a lot of CBN on hardened tool steels. It is great stuff. Diamond was used much less by industry. Part of that reason was simple cost. I am still confused. It would seem to me that the sharper the tool the less resistance the hair should present. The less pulling should be the most comfortable? What does a diamond edge have that makes it less comfortable? Thanks to everyone for their thoughts.
Diamond cuts fast but DEEP. The particles are crystalline as opposed to crox and cbn which iir are round. This can be felt as a million tiny daggers(LOL) well you can feel the diamond as compared to other medium. You can try it yourself to see. I already did and although at first I was sold on it, but I realized the harsh feeling was not desirable nor acceptable to me. Many people use it and love it, Im not one of them though.
My thought process behind this although not scientific is this.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry1
As you shave even with light pressure the edge and part of the bevel skim your face,
Diamonds as an abrasive have very angular surfaces compared to other abrasive compounds,
and as such leave a scratch pattern that's ridges are also sharp.
This results in your face being scratched more aggressively than when other mediums are used.
This is what leads to the harsher feeling and potentially discomfort and or razor burn for some.
Sharp is sharp, smooth is smooth.
Sharp enough to cut hairs with no resistance and smooth feeling on my face is what I aim for.
Again just my take/thoughts on it.
I agree with the guys above about the diamond particles. But, when I started shaving, I don't remember me being particularly picky about the harshness of the edges. Today, if the edges of my razors are not smooth enough, I don't like them. But then, as long as it could deliver a sharp edge that could cut without resistance, I was satisfied. Actually, I don't think I even knew what harshness was. There was sharp and not sharp enough.
"Believers & doubters of films". No sir, experience talking. What we are talking about is on the microscopic level which requires magnification beyond what I have. A razor for the face is a tool, but a tool that is used on soft tissue. We have to keep this in mind as we want the blade to glide over the skin and mow down the whiskers that are poking out. Many razors (90-95%) cannot handle much over 1 micron when it comes to the edge as it becomes too fragile. Some pastes & sprays will break down as you use them, but the diamonds are some tough boogers. Diamonds will make a razor's edge feel rather "crisp" on the face.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerry1
I revert back to my same statement when it comes to films: How many veteran honers do you see using films for honing? I actually don't know of any. Go ahead and experiment, that's how you gain experience. Once you gain experience...you will end up with stones and echo the sentiments.
I posted this http://straightrazorpalace.com/advan...spray-sem.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by jerry1
some time ago, explaining why diamond stropping can produce a harsh shaving blade, if incorrectly used, although there was not much interest.
There are some images of diamond and CBN here: http://straightrazorpalace.com/membe...compounds.html and you will see that they are indistinguishable. I do not believe that abrasive will break down on a strop.
Lapping film is no different than hones or abrasive strops. If incorrectly used they produce poor results. I honed on a Jnat once and the edge was not very sharp. Should I conclude that Jnats produce dull edges?
The razor needs to be sharp enough. Sharper than sharp enough only risks skin irritation. Personally, I have never experienced a blade that is too sharp, but then very few people have whiskers as thick as mine. I also don't believe harshness is caused by the razor being too sharp, but that is another story.
Well,
I didn`t try all but i try CBN few times. I can`t tell is really drastically improving shaving experience. I have few ERN old razor, with almost not existing blade (many years of use) which I tested on CBN, oil hone and water hone. Difference was minimal to none, however I overdone once with CBN. Blade was harsh and dull very fast. Smoothest shave I got from oil hone and smooth and little more sharp from water hone. Of course depend of what stone you use as finisher. Don`t ask me what hones I used because I have so many, many unknown so I start using numbers instead of names for my hones.
Few which i know and tested: Escher with water-smooth and sharp
LI on ild-my is extremely smooth, i guess best I ever could get.
Thuri-depend of which one I can get good balance between smooth or sharp.
C12K-well my is so hard that after 300 passes i get really good edge-better or close to coti
I tested CBN with many of the stones and sometimes I have seen blade degradation, sometimes it help but as i said difference is not worth paying for CBN (my personal opinion).
I better invest in good natural stone hone (and there is also more fun with stones too). Now I`m testing hone #17 (I guess this one is Water or Ary-or something similar...).