Needing a suggestion

First the background:
I've had my straights in storage for a couple years and have been DE-ing it for a while. I've recently decided to try to get back to the straights at least once and a while. Before I put them away I was getting reasonable if not great results, with some inconsistency. Having a couple years of DE practice under my belt has shown me that I was tolerating a rather poor shave, and getting lucky with a mix of compounds and such. When I moved, most of my home-made strops and the like got tossed, and since most of my compounds were rather low quality stuff, I'm thinking I've hit the limits of their use for razors, and that's not too useful to me. I also think I got lucky on a couple of my blades, and so without all of that extra work, I won't be able to get that level of sharpness (not that I want to, since I think I was pretty much honing with pastes) funny how hindsight works.

My current collection of rocks are as follows
800 ceramic (lee valley pocket stone)
4k king
8k ceramic (lee valley pocket stone)
"Apart" barbers hone
5 and .5 micron film (which is nearly used up). (I use the film wet, and just water stuck to one of the ceramics)

I've also since gotten a few more razors, and have two (king kutter and edelweiss with the same tang stamp) that I feel I can use for general testing, and get some science going for me.

I honed the king up on the 8k and then did some polishing with the .5 film(40 strokes), and got a pretty reasonable edge. I did the edelweiss up going from the 8k to the barbers hone(40 strokes), with a pretty poor result.
I suspect that my 8k is a bit harsher than normal due to my lapping method, which leaves visible scratches. So it ends up being too rough for the barber to bring it up.

now for the questions:
I've got bevel setting working out well, and I'm thinking its the finishing level that I need to work on. I'm looking at a naniwa SS 10k as it has a reasonable cost, and availability. What are the chances that this stone will get me a good polish which I can then strop to finish, or finalize with the barbers hone?

By my research the 10k should be somewhere close to the .5 micron film which seems to be pretty close to what should be workable.

Due to my current budget constraints I need to be very sure that I'll be getting good value from this stone, so I'm looking for a single stone option. I am also willing to put more work in to get the most out of the stone I buy.
If there is another good stone that I can get for a reasonable price in Aus, I'm open to suggestions.

If your barbers hone is in good shape I would think you have all you need. I shaved off an 8k for a year before moving up in grits. You should be able to also. I would suggest you find someone near you for a hands on lesson on honing or plug along until you get it right. :<0) Spending money on hones does not replace or shorten the learning curve. I would also go 12 K after 8k. But this is all just me:<0)

That's what I figured as well, and when I was honing before, I thought the barbers hone was working. Now, that said, maybe it works better once I get to the higher polish (which I was getting before with the wood-workers CrOx). Right now I'm messing around with a third razor (Theo kochs chicago) did the film first and now lots of passes on the barber, and its not making it duller, not sure if its getting sharper.

Maybe I've broken my hone? when I first got it, it didn't seem to do much, then I cleaned it, and it did much better (I think it got ren-waxed) Today I lapped it a bit, and it is showing a little bit of swarf, but it is slooooooooow. The edelweiss still shows the 8k scratches, where as the other two off the film have a mirror finish without magnification. Now that might say something, should an 8k be leaving visible scratches? I'm trying to remember what I did before and what stuff looked like, but it defeats me.

I'm pretty much just needing to replace the film, since the rest of the system seems to work.
A 12k SS would also be an option, but I have not found one for sale at this time.

Yes the 8k leaves scratches. The barbers hone may take awhile getting them out I don't know for sure. I don't use 1 although I have a few. Again you should be able to shave of the 8k. A nice shave. If not you may have to go back a step. After the 8k it becomes more of a polish and refine thing. You could knock the 8k scratches off some by doing circles with very little pressure before hitting the barbers hone. By changing direction you get the tops of those scratches down some. You keep at it you'll figure it out :<0)

Are you saying 8k with stropping or shaving straight off the 8k? the other part of the thing here is I have no idea how my 8k compares to any other 8k. I'm sure I'll get it sooner or later.

I had 250/1000k king 2x7 to set bevel (the most important step) Norton 4k/8k 3x8 , 25 laps linen,75 horse hide paddle , shave.

You stumped me on the comparison thing. I would think 8k is 8k but some would say different on certain hones. Now, I did shave off a 1k a couple of times. Once I forgot to strop while experimenting with this. And I won't do it anymore :<0)

12k naniwas can be had from dieter
Schmidt, google the name and fine tools should come up. But he is on the pricey side. I think tools from Japan may sell them, and for superstones up to 10k I think eBay seller 330_mate is very reasonable.

I have been reading your comments about honing, as I will need to invest in some equipment in the future (im new to this), and was wondering, can this honing be done to regular knives (I have a multi-tool with knive in 154cm steel), and get to a similar edge as a straight razor? (with 4/8k stones, stropping etc) Or is the metal used in straight razors different? Would be great to be able to get my knife this sharp (I have the leatherman MUT)

U can hone knives like you do razors but if your knife isn't made out of the right kinds of steel you will not get them as sharp as your razor.

I do lots of knife sharpening free-hand as well, and I use all the same stones. its all a matter of what kind of edge you want. for most knives I just use the 800 as it gives a nice toothy edge, but for some I use the king 4k, and for little super-sharp blades, I use the 8k. you just need to be aware that you get different wear patterns on the stones with knives. and soft stones like the king need a gentle touch.

Swerve thanks for the advice, but unfortunately my budget is really tight. (in fact once I make the decision, it will probably be several months before I actually buy) right now the only SS12k I can find is more than twice the price of the 10k I can get. so there is that.

I'm getting good bevels I know that, I just need the final polish, so if I can get that from a 10k, it will be worth saving for. If a 12k comes up in that time, I would go for that, but I don't see it happening.

Yeah I had to keep saving and then splurge over and over to get what I got. But I figured if I got a 10k I would wonder about the 12 so I just went ahead and got it instead of the 10. in the words of Johnny Cash I got it one piece at a time

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Originally Posted by Swerve

Yeah I had to keep saving and then splurge over and over to get what I got. But I figured if I got a 10k I would wonder about the 12 so I just went ahead and got it instead of the 10. in the words of Johnny Cash I got it one piece at a time

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That's exactly what I did too, except I bought the 10k, then wondered about a 12, then a friend was replacing his almost new 12k as he wanted one without a base, so I ended up buying the 12 k with bass from him that he wanted to replace.

So, for the guys who have used both the 10k and the 12k, is the 12k better enough to justify spending more than twice the price? If its hands down more than twice as good, and will fit within my current system (not too far away from my goofy 8k) then I guess it will go on the list.

I appreciate what you guys are saying. obviously the edge off the 12k is going to be a bit better. But what I'm saying is that right now I'm planning on buying one stone, and the SS10k seems to be the best value of everything I've looked at. Its relatively cheap, well regarded, and its available from several vendors. I'm not interested in gambling on a natural that may or may not be good. In a few years I may add to the collection, but for now I'm looking for something that will get my razors back into gear, and the 10k seems to be the best option to do that sooner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GadgetGeek

So, for the guys who have used both the 10k and the 12k, is the 12k better enough to justify spending more than twice the price? If its hands down more than twice as good, and will fit within my current system (not too far away from my goofy 8k) then I guess it will go on the list.

I appreciate what you guys are saying. obviously the edge off the 12k is going to be a bit better. But what I'm saying is that right now I'm planning on buying one stone, and the SS10k seems to be the best value of everything I've looked at. Its relatively cheap, well regarded, and its available from several vendors. I'm not interested in gambling on a natural that may or may not be good. In a few years I may add to the collection, but for now I'm looking for something that will get my razors back into gear, and the 10k seems to be the best option to do that sooner.

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It is a bit better, but not sure if it is twice as good, but to be fair I havent used either of them that much yet.

Okay the plot thickens..... You are using these same stones on knives ? Do you lap them before putting a razor on them ?

the ceramics I have are very, very hard. so I lap them only when I've really worn them smooth. The king 4k only gets used on scandi ground knives, and gets lapped pretty often. I'm getting a good clean bevel. That's not the problem. And a few hours of scrap scrounging I could work up enough pasted stops to get things going. However, I'm looking to add some consistency to the system, add some longevity to the sharpness (starting out by convexing the ever living crap out of my bevel seems to be counter productive long term) and the simplest method seemed to be to add a high grit stone I can polish with or run some pyramids off of.