Red Amakusa

I recently acquired a Red Amakusa for an experiment; I'm trying to go from bevel setting to finish using natural hones only. So far I've spent roughly 4 hours trying to set the bevel on a W&B, best I've done so far is got the edge to catch hairs, barely cut them. The razor was shaving before I started, I did kill the edge first. I create my slurry using a 325 DMT and water down the slurry as I go. I've tried circles, half strokes and used all three of the methods shown on Coticule.be for Coticules and the edge will catch the hair but when I try to even things out with the straight and x stroke like Lynn and Glen use the edge falls off, makes no sense to me.

I'm not a beginner honer, been doing it for over 5 years but this has me stump. Any suggestions?

If it’s a hollow ground it should not take too long on a good Amakusa. If this is a W&B wedge setting the bevel could take some doing, even on a Chosera 1K IMHO.
Mike

http://i.imgur.com/e2MRjTE.jpg

This is faster. IMO
http://i.imgur.com/zy6IDuh.jpg

the very simple answer is NO
it releases large particles and chips the edge

I agree with Modine, of course, that the Chosera is much, much faster.

I have, however, used an all natural progression several times, just for grins. I've never had an amakusa in hand (beautiful stones) but I've used both igarashi and a white binsui stones to set the bevel. If your stone autoslurries at all like my igarashi you will never reach quite the level of sharpness to mow down hair, however you will find that it's better than you think. I did the best I could, then went to a medium coticule slurry on a lv 5+ base stone, then a tsushima nagura (supposed to be 5-8K equivalent) and on to the usual asano/tomo progression with great success. The binsui produces a bit sharper bevel but is very slow for a stone that's supposed to be 1-2K. I've since skipped the coticule slurry and worked the tsushima more.

Although these were entertaining experiments, I'll still go with 1-5K Chosera if I have to take something all the way back to the bevel. Good luck.



rs,
Tack

I tried it some time back, IIRC it was what I called "Quaint" it just seemed there was a balance point and like you I kept tipping to the wrong side of it...

This whole ordeal is mostly an experiment. I have been using synthetics to set the bevel with Norton 1k, then 4k, 8k before finishing on Coticule, some times the Welsh DT & LM or the C12k. My plan, which I failed to mention in OP, is to go from the Amakusa to the DT Welsh stone (hoping its not too big of a jump) to maybe bring the bevel in more, then finish on either the LM Welsh stone or Coticule, possibly the C12k, hadn't quite decided which one yet. In other words, wanted to try going from bevel setting to finish on natural stones only.

I'm using a W&B full hollow that has the slightest crack in the blade, nothing major, just enough in the edge to cause very minor irritation, figured it would be a good experimental razor. The Amakusa was cheap enough to invest in for this experiment, something I've never been able to do before. So far the beginning of the experiment has failed...back to the drawing board!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MODINE

If it’s a hollow ground it should not take too long on a good Amakusa. If this is a W&B wedge setting the bevel could take some doing, even on a Chosera 1K IMHO.
Mike

http://i.imgur.com/e2MRjTE.jpg

This is faster. IMO
http://i.imgur.com/zy6IDuh.jpg

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That's a good looking stone! Is that an Amakusa Burl?

It's another house brick polished up lol

Thank you it is a large Amakusa for knives and swords. I don’t know the name or have the stamp anymore. Performance is what matters. The Amakusa is very porous, gritty and can also have pock marks that may cause chipping.

Have fun experimenting. Try using heavy slurry to help fill the stones surface irregularities and improve cutting ability. Do you have a way to visually inspect the edge?
Mike

I have a 60x microscope to inspect the edge. Have been keeping an eye on it and so far no chipping. I think I might try a heavier slurry next time and maybe stay with the circle or the half strokes a little longer before switching to straight and x strokes. I realize naturals are slower and I may be pulling the gun too quick.

While I don’t have an Amakusa, I have hone on naturals for years bevel setting on Arks. More recently I have bevel set razors that were in need of edge repair/bread knife and experimented bevel setting on a DMT 1200.

If you try to completely bevel set, where the bevels come togeather the edge becomes very chippy. So I take the edge to the point the bevels are even and flat but bevels do not come completely togeather.

Then bring the bevels togeather with a finer grit stone or film. It takes more time and work but I feel the edges are stronger for it.

This statement may not be for the novice honer… You do not have to completely bevel set to the point the edges meet, with your bevel setter in the 1K range, get close then seal the deal with a finer stone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

While I don’t have an Amakusa, I have hone on naturals for years bevel setting on Arks. More recently I have bevel set razors that were in need of edge repair/bread knife and experimented bevel setting on a DMT 1200.

If you try to completely bevel set, where the bevels come togeather the edge becomes very chippy. So I take the edge to the point the bevels are even and flat but bevels do not come completely togeather.

Then bring the bevels togeather with a finer grit stone or film. It takes more time and work but I feel the edges are stronger for it.

This statement may not be for the novice honer… You do not have to completely bevel set to the point the edges meet, with your bevel setter in the 1K range, get close then seal the deal with a finer stone.

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Sounds like a plan! I think I will start the bevel setting process using the Amakusa then when the bevel gets close switch to the Welsh DT. If that turns out OK then go to either the Welsh LM or Coticule then depending on how the edge feels finish with C12k if needed.

Later I'll try the Amakusa then switch to the Coticule and see what happens. Experimentation is what makes this sport/hobby interesting, so many things to try.

Thanks for the info!

I have used Mikes?Modines Amakusa before, it is a nice stone, but IIRC it seemed to like some steels better than others.

Since Modine's hone was hand picked he apparently was able to get a good one. Mine on the other hand is a different story. Tried again last and no matter what I tried, and I tried different techniques, strokes, etc., the results were the same, no improvement. I did followed the Amakusa with the Welsh DT and it did improve the edge but since the bevel wasn't set before DT I think it would take a long time for it to finish setting the bevel. Therefore, IMHO, that combo won't work.

Next I try following the Amakusa with a Coticule and will report back with results.

OK, so I tried the Amakusa and Coticule on the W&B Special. Got the edge to where it was somewhat sticky (pulled hair instead of cut) then moved to the Coticule. Shaved with the W&B Special last night and it wasn't bad at all, very little irritation and a clean shave. The Coticule did 90% of the work; finished setting bevel then finished sharpening, polished and finished the edge.

IMHO, the Amakusa may be OK for knives but unless you can hand pick one or have someone else do it for you as Modine did I don't think they are suited for str8 razors, at least mine isn't. So, this experiment has been terminated and it looks like I have a $30 door stop. Maybe I'll draw a face on it and use for target practice....wonder what a 50 cal. round ball would do to it?