Old Brazilian Water Hones "Piedra Brazil" (Schist)

Found an old catalogue from 1888 were the Brazilian Hones are marketed directly on the oposite site of the German Water Hones (Escher). Interesting ist that these stones were sold in higher prices to this time then the German ones (7inch, 1,50 USD, German one 1,25 USD)...

Also it seems like that the company did a cooperation to with the supllier / the quarry owner as beeing the one and only seller....

My question is just in this thinking if anybody has a proper sample of a kind of "old Brazilian" Water Hone, because it seems
to be that these stones were great performers....

http://up.picr.de/17788668lw.jpg

http://up.picr.de/17822321as.jpg

Some Customer Statements from 1888:

http://up.picr.de/17822270ud.jpg
http://up.picr.de/17822202sx.jpg

it seems like HAD isn't bound to our current time if I read that customer statement correctly... I hope one turns up in this thread ;)

There are a couple of youtube videos (well - more than a couple, but one or two are of especial interest to us) by PeriodWoodworker online.

In one, maybe two, he shows a number of examples of Brazilian Hones that he has come across. Although he has numerous examples, they seem to be limited to two manufacturers, the Clauss Shear Co. in Fremont and Bracketts Compound Brazilian Hone in Michigan.

The former is 7" x 2" and the latter 5" x 2". Both appear to be man made.

He reads that the Clauss Hone is made from especial brazilian pebbles (which appear to be some sort of quartz) and says that they are sintered and ground with something else to form them into shape. In the examples with original rubbers, the rubber appears to be a bit of compound BBW/Coticule. One works up a slurry on the surface of the hone - which he says resembles a very fine dark arkansaw hone. He says the there are various colours, yellowish, chocolate-brownish, etc. Some appear to be translucent.

I expect the colour variation is in part due to the natural stone, and in part due to the filler. To the filler one can perhaps add another abrasive, as the Brackett Combination Brazilian Hone seems to offer two degrees of abrasion. I suppose this could also be achieved by more filler-to-natural on one side, making that side cut slower.

I have no doubt that other sorts of 'Brazilian' hone existed - it was quite an innovative place at one time for all sorts of silvers and iron alloys as well as, like other parts of South Amerca, possessing a very high degree of wealthy german immigrants - and that the hone shown by Doorsch owes more to water stones than to a seemingly adamantine oil-type hone. In fact, the advertisement he shows has them likened to thuringians, so one would suppose that they where a slate-honing stone rather than the Clauss and Bracketts quarz-type stone, which seems more novaculite in nature.

The trouble with 'trade names' is that is all they are - they need not have any veracity of place of origin behind them at all, and one wonders whether the thuringian-type Brazilian hone really came from Brazil at all.

Regards,
Neil

Thanks Neil for your explanation on this Issue and the Information on the vid... i already had known the Periodwoodworker Videos but not that Video on the Brazilian Hones....and yes Neil for shure we do not know if these ones was really quarried in Brazil.....

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it seems like HAD isn't bound to our current time if I read that customer statement correctly... I hope one turns up in this thread

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I would firstly like to see one, then i would appreciate if the one who ones it can share his experiences, and then i want some more HAD :-) Just joking, it would be great to see if there is any old one of these "alive"....in thinking how old these ones are and up to date knowing that these were probably only sold by this catalog company i would think these are quite rare and harder to find then any Escher or other comparable labelled hone (f.ex. the Magog Oilstone)

Looking at the label of the Brazilian hone, it seems to me that this is a natural stone from Brazil as you can see on the label "Sole Proprietor de la Diamanta quarries".

Tc blade has a Brazilian Black slate on his webpage.
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Bringing this old thread back to life to share a page of a Theo A. Kochs catalogue from 1884 advertising the Brazilian hone among others. Zooming in on the picture the hone says "Piedra Brazil solos proprietarios de los Diamentine" and the ad "...we wish to say that this hone is of the order of the Water Hone. Of finer grain and softer than any other hone, it is unequaled in its cutting powers giving razors a keener edge in less time than can be done by any other hone on the market."

These ranged from $1.50 - $2.25, again more expensive than the Green Water Hones which ranged from $1.00 - $1.45.

But it's the Belgian hones that got "pricey" going all the way up to $15 for a 15 inch piece. Also mentioned are Italian oil hones (?) "for taking off wiry edge", and strops made from linen hose and various leathers.
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Great.

Now I want a Brazilian hone.

Now we all do......lol

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Originally Posted by Utopian

Great.

Now I want a Brazilian hone.

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Originally Posted by rodb

Now we all do......lol

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Wanted it all the time since starting that post ;-) never seen one....

Well I just bought the only one on ebay that purported to be a Brazilian hone. We'll shall see.... This particular seller has had some of the most interesting stones come up for sale. I ended up passing on it, afraid it might show up as a cnat...

Brazil is a big country with a very big and active mining industry. If there were some great hones there they would be in production today.

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Brazil is a big country with a very big and active mining industry. If there were some great hones there they would be in production today.

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Hey they still produce hones today....ok not the one shown from that Catalogue ;-)

I did end up getting the 6 X 2 Green Brazillian hone, I missed out on the larger 8 X 2. I'd pay almost anything to get another one of these even though the slurry stone doesn't seem to make any slurry unless it is translucent. This stone is quite remarkable. Stone is fast but it does not wear at all..... it maintains its glassy like surface. Feedback is very sobering, you need to be alert. In all seriousness, it puts one of the best edges on any razor I have ever tried it on and I have a good selection of jnats, Escher/Thuri to compare it to.

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Originally Posted by Aerdvaark

I did end up getting the 6 X 2 Green Brazillian hone, I missed out on the larger 8 X 2. I'd pay almost anything to get another one of these even though the slurry stone doesn't seem to make any slurry unless it is translucent. This stone is quite remarkable. Stone is fast but it does not wear at all..... it maintains its glassy like surface. Feedback is very sobering, you need to be alert. In all seriousness, it puts one of the best edges on any razor I have ever tried it on and I have a good selection of jnats, Escher/Thuri to compare it to.

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Well sounds like we all should buy some brazillian Slate tiles ;-)

....really hard to beat Thuris and Jnats, surely not impossible....

No, don't buy any, I'm not trying to push them, sorry if it sounded like I did. Don't mind me, I get over excited about almost anything. They are pretty darn impressive though. I ruled it out as soon as I got it because truthfully, it was cheap and I didn't want to think that all these expensive Eschers and jnats I have could be equaled, I see where your coming from. I continued messing around with it though, I threw some koma nagura at it and literally blew my socks off. Same thing with some light green thuri slurry. Today, I will restore at least one razor. When the time comes to finish it I have a box and shelf full of stones to die for. What do I use to put the final edge on? This dumb little 34 dollar stone...

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Brazil is a big country with a very big and active mining industry. If there were some great hones there they would be in production today.

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In most slate quarries there is material that can be used for hones. But the need for hones today has declined/it's almost non existent. And the ones who use hones are professional woodworkers and us razor guys mostly. Even most chefs are satisfied with "honing steel" and cheap coarse stones. A few years back, I contacted a few slate quarries in Europe about stone for polishing/finishing, most who answered had stones to offer, even from the "Franconian" slate quarry, and the price was a tenth from that of the stone sold. I didn't buy any in the end, the mail was a question, but chances are, some of them would be razor grade.
If you were to compare a big quarry that produces tons of slate everyday with hundreds of workers, and a small hone quarry with a couple of workers like today's Cretan stone/Pyrenees sandstone/Rozsutec and a few others, there is a huge difference on goals, with different equipment, as well as income. I'm sure there are high quality stones in Brazil, but I doubt anyone working there would be interested in starting searching for hones. Maybe a worker who shaves with a SR or likes woodworking but nothing more than that. And I doubt the owners would be interested in starting with a new line where they would produce hones out of that material. Sad for us but true.

hey all, i'm a new member. may grandfather was a rabbi and also worked as a kosher meat slaughterer (shochet). i have many great and unknown stones, the youngest stones are 50 years old.. some of them are brazilian stones he gave me of many kinds and sizes. i can tell - these stones are great. they last for a lifetime (unlike coticule and thuringian that wear relatively fast), they super fine finisher, and moderately fast.
if someone interested im looking for one more yellow green thuringian (the one i have is a memory from my grandpa and not for use), and a natural combo coticule. size should be at least 20 x 4.5 cm. so im open for some kind of trade (depends of what you have to offer, maybe with extra money from one side..). if someone will want ill post some photos

Definitely post some pictures.

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Originally Posted by Martin103

Looking at the label of the Brazilian hone, it seems to me that this is a natural stone from Brazil as you can see on the label "Sole Proprietor de la Diamanta quarries".

Tc blade has a Brazilian Black slate on his webpage.
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I have an Imperia La Roccia hone that looks a lot like the Brazilian water hone pictured. I know that the sellers of the ILR are not forthcoming about the geographical source of their hones. SRP forum members have dissed the stones as a result. I always wondered whether the stones might be sourced from somewhere in South America; after all, we have hones from Europe, Asia, North America, and South Africa, so why do we not have hones from South America? Perhaps we already do. If ILR stones are from South America, I have NO evidence that they do, I can understand why the sellers would not identify the source of the stones. Just like we make fun of Chinese Guangxi hones, calling them PHIG, we would likely do the same with a hone from Brazil or another South American country. Hones should be evaluated based on their performance rather than on their country of origin.

BTW, like all natural hones, no matter what the source, ILR hones vary in quality. I have one that is an excellent finisher and another that is more of a prefinisher. I can get better edges off my ILR than I get from my Coticule, but that does not mean that all ILR hones are better than all Coticules. I am just comparing two specific stones in my possession.

here are some pictures of a few brazillian hones from my collection. all bought by my father about 40 years ago. as you can see they differ in color and texture. some of them needs lapping
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posted pictures :)

Very nice! Did you follow in dads footsteps and become a butcher? I have fond memories of the last kosher butcher shop near my home in Brooklyn growing up. Wooden floors, sawdust, MEAT!

I would love for a chance to try one of those Brasils. (Im sure half of the rest of the guys would too!) Perhaps you would consider letting a select few try their hands at it?
If not, we all look forward to YOU putting a blade on there, and telling us how it does! :tu And a good Sukkot to you sir!