Blade Chips

Hi guys,
Can some one tell me why I get chips in my blades now and then.
I have just honed 2 razors and one has a tiny chip near the heel and the other razor has a tiny chip near the toe.
If you angle the blades and get the light to run down the edge , you can just make out tiny chips.
I don't think they would effect a shave much. Even though I wont accept them and re hone them.
Is it because im over working them on the hones?
I have a tendency to do that.
I look forward to your input ...
Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JOB15

Hi guys,
Can some one tell me why I get chips in my blades now and then.
I have just honed 2 razors and one has a tiny chip near the heel and the other razor has a tiny chip near the toe.
If you angle the blades and get the light to run down the edge , you can just make out tiny chips.
I don't think they would effect a shave much. Even though I wont accept them and re hone them.
Is it because im over working them on the hones?
I have a tendency to do that.
I look forward to your input ...
Thanks

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All things being equal, overworking them on the hone is one cause and pressure is another. I'm not sure what your stone progression is at the moment but if you're trying to squeeze a little more sharpness from your blades, you might want another stone of higher grit. Also, it could be the steel of your razor. Some are brittle and they chip easily during the process. In those instances, you need to give the edge some added strength. Most will do that by adding another layer of tape or two to the spine to do that. If none of this addresses your problem, add in some more details about the razor and stones you're using.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OCDshaver

All things being equal, overworking them on the hone is one cause and pressure is another. I'm not sure what your stone progression is at the moment but if you're trying to squeeze a little more sharpness from your blades, you might want another stone of higher grit. Also, it could be the steel of your razor. Some are brittle and they chip easily during the process. In those instances, you need to give the edge some added strength. Most will do that by adding another layer of tape or two to the spine to do that. If none of this addresses your problem, add in some more details about the razor and stones you're using.

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I use the shaptons then a jnat.
I think its too much pressure ...
The one that I have the most trouble with is the Hart Steel Not a Replica blade, which I know is brittle .
I honed it twice to get what I thought was a nice non chipped edge but today I found some chips by the heel . Really tiny chips only noticeable by the deflection of light.
I'm honing this blade for my brother so I want it to be perfect. I'll re do it tomorrow for a third time.
This time with double tape and less pressure..
Thanks

Other than the above issues there is also the possibility of grit contamination, or using too much energy while flipping the razor on the hone.

If the razor was a restoration, rust near the edge can have damage that extends into the steel. This can show up as chips if you are using just an eyeball mark I, with magnification you can see the pits coming and turn into chips.

Good luck, and have fun on the learning curves.
Jonathan

Are you using a microscope when honing? I suspect that under a microscope, you'd probably see chipping happening at that level as well. When I have this problem, I see it show up with a lousy, uneven edge all along the way. Later chips form.

I do try to flip softly...I will try harder

I do use a microscope but I only check 2/3 sections of each side and not the whole length .
I'm trying to get away from microscope usage because of time issues.
I have to hone all of my blades and my brothers.
This easter im gonna hone up a storm :)

Have you checked for the chips direcly after honing?
The reason I ask is that I have found that sometimes microchips show up after stropping that were not there after honing. This only happens occasionaly but caused me to pause and try to figure out what is happening.
I tend too blame the cause on the steel being too brittle but I have also wondered if agressive stropping isn't partially to blame.
I came to an understanding that a gentle very light to no pressure is very good at the end of each hone in progression. and especially on the finishing hone.
I think this gentleness pays dividends on the strop as well.
I used to strop at a pretty fair pace and have slowed down considerably after recognizing a slap as the razor is turned to change direction.
Now i I think every slap was the blade hitting the strop with excessive speed and force. This causes the very delicate edge to bury itself much farther than necessary into the slight cushion that the leather strop offers.
Bend that delicate edge back and forth enough times, even a tiny bit, and it will fail.
I have slowed my stropping pace and keep in mind to do a gentle flip and I beleive I have a smoother and better edge regardless of the quality of the steel in the blade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galaxy51

Have you checked for the chips direcly after honing?
The reason I ask is that I have found that sometimes microchips show up after stropping that were not there after honing. This only happens occasionaly but caused me to pause and try to figure out what is happening.
I tend too blame the cause on the steel being too brittle but I have also wondered if agressive stropping isn't partially to blame.
I came to an understanding that a gentle very light to no pressure is very good at the end of each hone in progression. and especially on the finishing hone.
I think this gentleness pays dividends on the strop as well.
I used to strop at a pretty fair pace and have slowed down considerably after recognizing a slap as the razor is turned to change direction.
Now i I think every slap was the blade hitting the strop with excessive speed and force. This causes the very delicate edge to bury itself much farther than necessary into the slight cushion that the leather strop offers.
Bend that delicate edge back and forth enough times, even a tiny bit, and it will fail.
I have slowed my stropping pace and keep in mind to do a gentle flip and I beleive I have a smoother and better edge regardless of the quality of the steel in the blade.

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That is an excellent point.
I was sure I checked my edge after honing and I do strop at a very fast pace, 50 linen then 100 leather.

You may also want use your microscope to check your edge after each progression on the hones and see if you dont have a hone problem or need to change the way you use the hone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JOB15

I do use a microscope but I only check 2/3 sections of each side and not the whole length .
I'm trying to get away from microscope usage because of time issues.
I have to hone all of my blades and my brothers.
This easter im gonna hone up a storm :)

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I'd reverse both of those points. First, I wouldn't try to get away from the scope but that choice is yours. There's information you can get from it and it's more likely to help than hurt. And I would also take the time to check the entire edge. There could be places along the edge not making good contact with the stone and you'd want to be able to see that.

Info ????

Shapton Progression ??? GS or Pro's ???

The stropping is a great test, however the other direction, if the edge is to fragile to stand up to the linen and leather it is way too fragile for beard hair...

Hart, needs at least 1 layer of tape they are designed that way, the older Harts which yours should not be, needed two layers.. A double micro bevel is a cute trick to solve chipping too

Tape and angles are figured using 3M 700 Electrical tape



Many of the newer razors are just chippy, Hart, Wacker, Revisor, the C135 TI's, so they tend to take a bit more finesse to get them S_M_O_O_T_H :)

Another issue then the above mentioned, is the hone. Is it completely flat? If there's a small bump, on the hone your edge will hit it and be destroyed. The easy way to check it, is to put some 400 grit sanding paper on a glass plate, and make some light pencil strokes on the hone.

Then lap the hone a few times with light pressure on the sanding paper and all the pencil marks should be removed. If not, lap the hone until they are gone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Info ????

Shapton Progression ??? GS or Pro's ???

The stropping is a great test, however the other direction, if the edge is to fragile to stand up to the linen and leather it is way too fragile for beard hair...

Hart, needs at least 1 layer of tape they are designed that way, the older Harts which yours should not be, needed two layers.. A double micro bevel is a cute trick to solve chipping too

Tape and angles are figured using 3M 700 Electrical tape



Many of the newer razors are just chippy, Hart, Wacker, Revisor, the C135 TI's, so they tend to take a bit more finesse to get them S_M_O_O_T_H :)

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I have the Shapton glass stones. 1K-4K-8K-16K , I follow the Lynn Abrams method and then do 10 mins on my Shobudani Mizu Asagi.
My hones are beyond flat, I use an Atoma 1200 and always tape the spine.
I do remember in the past having the same problem with my hart, so I re honed it with less circles and strokes and it came out fine.
Instead of 30 circles in a direction I tend to do 40, and so on ..
I dunno whats wrong with me :confused:

Thanks for your all your advise.
I sorted the problem out .
Basically you need to really understand each blade and how to treat them.
I'm sure you all know this anyway.
The problem is im dealing with so many different blades, Dovo/Issard/Hart/Customs.
I just have to understand each blade and not cut corners..