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I have the Norton 4/8 but am debating replacing it with a Naniwa SS 5k and 8k. I already have the nani 1k which I love. Looking at the scratch pattern/polish it seems the Norton 4k is a step down from the nani 1k? I know the two companies don't use the same grit scale, but am I way off base with my assessment? Looking for some opinions from honers more knowledgable than I. Will the nani 1k, 5k, and 8k be reason jumps between stone?
I also think the norton 4k looks and feels courser than the Nani 1k and tends to do more damage to the spine if I don't tape I found
I may also be imagining it. But the feed back feels smoother on the 1k
We can only wait and see what the more experienced honers have to say
I agree with that as well. The feedback from the Norton is harsher. Perhaps from the clay binder.
Keep the norton and get the naniwas. You'll find times when you'll prefer one over the other. Not that one is better, just different. Just IMHO.
I have the both sets and prefer the Chosera 1K, then the Norton 4,8K then the Super stone 12K then a natural finisher.
I like the Chosera for the smoothness and ability to cut a quick straight bevel, The Norton 4,8k for their agressiveness and feel and the 12k for the quick finish on the edge. It really does not matter except for the finisher between the two brands.
Find a 1K you like and a finisher, the middle does not matter.
Really even the 1K does not matter as long as it is capable of setting the bevel.
Perhaps I will spring for just the 5k now as it's only the norton 4k side I don't really like. The 8k is fine and even has a good feedback.
Sounds like you have a plan,
as to your last question the 1,5,8,(12) is a good progression none of the jumps are large.
Pat
I say ditch the Norton 4/8. Get the Nani 3/8K combo and the Nani 12K. Keep your 1K, of course.
Then, basically anything further is icing on the cake and really to satisfy curiosity.
My Norton's smoothed out more after awhile. I use the same pattern as Euclid almost. Not having both to choose from I wonder about one thing. My edge off a Nani 12k feels harsh were as my edge off the Norton 8k feels smooth. Either way the Zulu finishes them off the same.
For me I think the Norton needs a lighter touch. Maybe like somebody stated "it's the binder".
I have the nani 12k as well it's a great hone on its on or if I hit the Zulu. My HAD seems to specialize in finishers. Next up is a verified Escher/thuringian for finishers. I think I'm sold with just getting the nani 5k cause once again I really do enjoy the Norton 8k. Does anyone else judge their progress just by eyeballing your bevel polish? I mean without magnification just checking shine and clarity.
I eyeball the 1k and after that I use the force Luke . FEEL it :<0)
Definitely us tactile tests as well. It's awesome how after honing a lot you get a good feel and for what's going on. Makes the entire honing process so much easier!
I just love it when someone quotes any thing STAR WARS !! :jedi:Quote:
Originally Posted by 10Pups
Your going to love tomorrow then. May the 4th be with you !Quote:
Originally Posted by Walterbowens
I completely agree with this, I use a €5 hone from the local hardwarestore for heavy corrections and setting an initial bevel, from that point on I switch to a coticule with slurry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
you only feel the finishing hone while shaving, not your progression ;)
This is one time I have to disagree,
Bevel
Sharpen
Polish
Finish
Every step is important to the final edge the only real difference is the amount of time and attention you spend there..
If you do your bevel set correctly then yes you tend to be able breeze through the middle sharpening/polishing stages and therefor tend to think they are not important, but I think you are doing a dis-service to the "Smooth" factor..
To the OP both systems are proved performers so really it comes down to how they "Feel" in your hands and on your razors, many of us feel the Naniwa SS have a more razor friendly touch to the hones as they use a softer binder and it tends to give a smoother feel to the stroke.. Whether that yields a better edge is back to the YMMV side of things :p
Glen is 100% Correct :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
So many times I've posted that 99.9% of Everything about straight razors is 'Personal Preference'. For example: an established fellow member (and a friend) used the Naniwa 4 and 8K hones and he complained that the 8K never seemed to stop wanting water and that he found that the edge of the hone chipped very easily. I recommended the Norton 4/8 (which is what I've used since the start) and he really liked it. HOWEVER he felt that the Naniwa gave a 'smoother' feeling when shaving.
Now before this event that same friend (who has spent more money than I can imagine buying and selling Natural rocks searching for one that would work for him) was very 'Leary' when I recommended the Naniwa 12K as a finisher. I finally bought one and had it shipped directly to him. At first he was a bit put out but after giving it a go, he often recommends it and says "It's a real workhorse". With that said, he also still uses the naturals.
It all boils down to what works for you:tu
I believe that Lynn posted quite some time ago that his Norton 4ks perform best after he laps at least 1/8 inch off the top.
I can't remember his exact wording as to why this is the case. Anybody here remember?
_____________________________________Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsell63
Lynn's recommendation for lapping 1/8 inch off the top is in his pyramid honing section in the WIKI.
Here: Lynn Abrams On Honing - Straight Razor Place Library
To remove aberrant imbedded grit. There is no need to lap it past just flat unless you are hitting grit that is causing damage.
My experience EXACTLY! I must say that I was given that tip by a well respected member. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian
I did make a pencil grid line. When the grid was gone, I redid the grid line and it cleaned up fairly fast and soon I could 'feel' the change as it was much smoother. The 4K side took longer but the 8K was a cinch! It didn't take anytime at all :tu
Certainly have the Norton lapped a bit since it was my only stone for a long while. I'm sure its a ymmv thing but I just really enjoy the nani feedback. What I question is why visually there seems to be a grit discrepancy as well. It is so true once you conquer bevel sets everything else is a piece of cake. It's when I have trouble setting a bevel I wanna pull my hair out. I currently have a frameback giving me such issues the bevel looks good but other tests say no go.
It's a matter about the destination or the journey to get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bram
You are probably right that if you do the job properly the final edge is a reflection of the last hone, or may be it is of the strop.
But if you don't have the foundation before that last hone, or if you don't lay it properly you will not be able to get 100% of what that final hone can offer and the roughness from the previous levels of the progression would still be there.
So, to a certain degree it does matter what your bevel setter is and what your polishing progression is.
When I say, It does not matter, I mean between manufactures, Norton and Naniwa.
One could use a progression of interchangeable brands and as long as the progression is polishing the bevel and edge in finer increments, final results would not matter.
One could bevel set with a 1200 DMT, polish on 3um film and finish on a 12k super stone with fine results.
True, bevel setting is key and knowing when a bevel is set, but really there is not much difference in performance on the blade between a King, Chosera, Super Stone, and Norton 1K… and even a DMT 1200 or any quality stone, except for possibly speed and ease of use. The DMT may require more polishing with the subsequent stone, but all will set a bevel just fine.
Short of bevel setting on the curb, which “brand” of stone you use should not matter. Any quality 1K stone will work, as will any brand of middle grit polishing stone.
No-one could shave with a razor and state, That was bevel set with a Chosera 1K!” Except for possibly, David Blaine that hound dog eyed dude is just freaky.
Now having those that swear by their finisher of choice, blind test shave with different razors finished on different finishers, to see if they could tell the difference would be interesting… perhaps a good and fun test for a meet up.
Wow! I stumbled on this thread and a lot of my initial questions on honing are already answered. Such a wealth of information here, it's great. I am looking into getting some initial starter stones and this gives me a lot to consider...
I think we have a very cool challenge for the heavy hitters of SRP. Anyone interested? Even people blindly guessing finisher would be very intriguing I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Euclid440
The Norton 8k/4k combo may no longer be the hone of the month but it's still a very capable stone. I just did a Kropp 5/8 on mine and after the 8k the edge felt and looked just right so I stropped and test shaved. I thought I'd probably have go to the Shapton 12k or the black Arkansas next but the test shave was amazing - it was as sharp and smooth as any razor I've ever used and I could not see any justification for laboring over the stones any further. You know when you're there!
I think many of us have done it. I have with a bunch of heljestrands mk31 few years back. I knew which one is honed how, so the challenge was to not pay attention when I pick the razor - they're similar enough that if I consciously tried to not notice the slight differences in the looks it worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by aa1192
It was the same result as when I'd test all of them during the same shave - there were differences, small ones, but noticeable enough. However I would want to have somebody hone them with the same hones and see if that changes anything - that would sway the results more towards the hones or more towards the person. Haven't done that second test though.
I could see that. My collection has gotten to a point where I have to write down what was used hones, tape, etc.
You'll get over it :) With a little bit more experience you'll be proficient enough that when you pick a razor you don't like how it shaves you'll go to the hones and make it shave exactly how you want it, regardless of the way it was honed before.
It's just a matter of experience.
I ended up getting a Naniwa 5k yesterday from SWMBO. I gotta say I really like it. Maybe it is all just the feedback and in my head, but I just like it better.
Forgive my ignorance, but what's SWMBO? Thanks,Quote:
Originally Posted by aa1192
Ryan
SheQuote:
Originally Posted by ryowl
Who
Must
Be
Obeyed
:chapeau
I like my 4/8 norton, but have shelled my 1k Norton for a blue Naniwa 1k. Never tried the green. Naniwa 12 K is my synthetic finisher of choice. In fact, my only synthetic finisher. I think the nanis are great. A little maintenance issues. All have their needs.
Except the 4/8 Norton. For what it is, it has no needs,Keep it in the water! JMO.
I just received the Nani 1k and DMT325 that I ordered. A couple days ago I had to send back the Norton 4/8k that I ordered from SRP, it had a deep chip on the one face. Very friendly service, I will do business with them again and hopefully in a couple more days I can get started when the replacement comes. Almost forgot, I was also granted a loaner Nani 12k! Yeah buddy! Great bunch of guys here I must say.
What are the maintenance issues with the Nanis, if you don't mind sharing some insight?Quote:
Originally Posted by sharptonn
Ryan
None too worrisome IME.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryowl
They tend to warp a bit depending on state of moisture.
Which in turn have many of us flattening them a tad after/before or during most every use.
Personally I really love the feel of the Naniwa SuperStones, but I dislike removing good honing material just to keep the stones flat whenever I use 'em.
Another very minor issue is that they can clog up a bit.
Again, a quick lap or two with a diamond plate fixes it right up.
Birnando speaks the truth. Also, more hones are needed to progress, IMO. Each to his own! As I say, don't soak the Nanis! A bit of flattening under running water before use, some water on top for 15 minutes or so. Ready to go!
I just learned on the 4/8 Norton and stay with it. I am lazy, cheap, and sentimental! ;)
Stones, blind folds, and very sharp razors ? Sounds fun. I'll pass :<0)Quote:
Originally Posted by aa1192
1 thru 8k Norton guy myself 12 Nani to top that off and then a damp Zulu to smooth everything out. It's all Glen's fault. He did my first Duck so I know that's how they are supposed to feel :<0)
:roflmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by 10Pups
Just put a nice Escher finish where my thumb used to be...sweet!