Yes, they are a great set ,,,a 1000K & a DMT 325 to lap & clean them would be nice , if you have the money.
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Yes, they are a great set ,,,a 1000K & a DMT 325 to lap & clean them would be nice , if you have the money.
As long as every razor you get has a bevel already set. Otherwise your missing a 1k. I learned on 1 4 8 for a year before I went higher. Glad I did.
Hirlau does the DMT need to be lapped as well? I thought I saw somewhere lap stones need to be lapped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hirlau
No, not lapped,, not the DMT,,,just broken in a little to remove any high points.
For what it's worth i have them in 1K, 5K, 10K and 12K and a DMT325 for lapping. i have honed about 50 razors on them now from touch ups to complete bevel sets, and breadknifing on some rusty blades. They are great stones, easy to use {comparatively} and have dealt with every razor i have thrown at them.
As Hirlau said - just add a DMT and a 1K stone to your set and you will be able to hone any razor. the stones will last for years. i lap mine at every use and still no appreciable wear visible.
Adam
Redcane,
If you want to save some money that would allow you to buy a cheap King 1K and a DMT 325, you could go with the Naniwa 3/8K combo instead of two seperate stones, the 5k and the 8K.
The jump between the 3/8K progression is pretty natural in my experience.
Either case, you *will* be happy with the Naniwas. I've got the 3/8/12Ks and, if I'm being honest with myself, that's all I needed. The shaves are still amazing coming of a 12K or when I had to go back and touch it up a bit.
I did get .3 CrOx and put it on felt and leather. It smooths things out quite nicely before stropping.
Cheers!
I would say if you have the Naniwa 8K then you don't actually need the 12K. The 8K edge is easily good enough to shave with, especially if your using crox as well.
It's also a better learning curve, The 12K doesn't do an awful lot to the edge, it's very much a polishing stone. If you can't shave from your own honing on the 8K then your definitely not going to get anything out of the 12K.
The other bit of advice is if your totally new to this go and get some cheap gold dollar razors. These razors should be seen as your learning tools. If you pick up 3, use 2 to learn on. Then the 3rd is your final test. You hone the 3rd when your confident your ready, You have the technique down, and your not damaging the edges. If you can shave from that 3rd razor, and you didn't damage it then you are ready to start working on the real thing.
My own RSO from my learning curve now looks like a Frankensteins monster. It has bits missing, excessive spine wear, an elongated bevel, Tang regrinding. And I'm very happy all of those mistakes happened on that cheap throw away steel, rather than something I actually want to shave with.
I, respectfully, differ with you on this point. The difference between the edge at the 8K level and the edge at the 12K level *is* measurable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceni
I'm not going to bite :D
If your hone a lot then yes you can tell the difference, If your new to honing as the OP is then he should concentrate on the 8K edge. If you can't shave from 8K then you can't shave from 12K, And as such the 12K can wait until a time when he can shave from the 8K.
The OP was looking at the same set of hones that you have, I believe. I think I should have added to my post that if you have a Naniwa 12K, why would you stop honing at the 8K level?? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceni
How many razors are you planning on honing? If you're just starting out, a full set of lapping films and a piece of tile from the hardware store will probably be the best bang for buck. Imagine getting a 1k, 2k, 3k, 5k, 8k, 12k, and 16k for about $8. rickboone gave me a sheet of each that he gets in packs of 25 from specialized.net i think he said. I haven't tested them out but i'm about to this weekend.
I have a Norton 4/8k that i do just fine getting an edge good enough for shaving with. 4k till its set, 8k till its smooth, then chromium oxide pasted linen, plain linen, sticky leather strop, fast and smooth leather strop... perfectly good edge that lasts.
I would happily stop at the 8K level, The only difference in the 8 and 12 is the added smoothness, The blade is just as sharp, And will still pop hairs and pass the HHT from the 8K.Quote:
The OP was looking at the same set of hones that you have, I believe. I think I should have added to my post that if you have a Naniwa 12K, why would you stop honing at the 8K level??
I wasn't in the market for the 5, or 8K hones, Originally I was happy with king 1 and 6K hones and wanted a 10K or 12K to get more smoothness. I was made an offer on the stones I had from a member here, And I'm glad I took up the offer. The 6K king sits under the 5K naniwa in terms of polish and edge. That been said I shaved for over 6 months with nothing other than the king 6K and had no problems. The finish from the 8K is more than fine enough, It's only in the search for smooth that you need to go higher, And even then you have to have the basics of honing down, Once you have the basics and you can make a good edge then your free to search for the ultimate edge.
Also in dropping the 12K and going with the combi stone the OP gets more tools that are vital to been able to hone, The DTM, Good crox, and a 1K stone all make sense to a person who is learning. It means they can start with all the tools to set a bevel, Keep their stones flat. Both of these things are for more important than the 12K hone IMHO.
If you know the stones are flat, then you know any razor/bevel problems are either technique or the razor. You have eliminated one of the variables. And if you can set a bevel from scratch then you have eliminated the problems associated with attempting to hone a factory edge that may not follow the spine, or a taped spine causing your stone not to touch the edge. Once you know everything is right then the only things that can be wrong are your own method or observations.
It is far too easy to forget that tools we take for granted, techniques, and casual observations that allow us to put a good edge on a razor are learned skills.
I would ad that by getting the lower grit stones and learning to use those first you also have time to decide if you would rather go with naturals to polish your edge. I shaved off the 8k for a year and became very proficient at that level. When I did go to 12k Nani I found it sharper but more harsh. 3 months after I got a Zulu Grey. Ahhhhhhh now your talking. To each his own path but I went the way advised by some of the best pros around. It paid off for me.
your right 10pups, sharper isn't always better, I don't have the naniwa's but I know that the sharpness from my finest grit welsh slate is a bit to sharp for my comfert probably because my shaving technique is still somewhat lacking behind.
@boostdemon, lapping film is cheap initially, but since there is a learning curve your going to neet more sheets
also @ the OP, get a loop of some kind, I recently had the most horible shaves and when I looked at the edge a bit better I still saw the marks from my bevel setter...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10Pups
+1
Same story with me.
Learn on a 8k and then expand your arsenal.
Dave
So talk to me about that ZG. I think the finished edge off the 12K Nani is smooth and comfortable. Is the ZG as easy to use as the Nani's? What stone are you using before the ZG and how many passes are you doing on the ZG to finish it off?Quote:
Originally Posted by 10Pups
Back in the day when the SR was king, users usually refreshed on barber's hones or pasted strops. Many barber's hones test at about 8K equivalent. No matter what hone you want to use, it cannot help you until all necessary work needed from a courser hone has been completed. It would be like trying to finish a rough sawn board using ultra fine sandpaper. The board must 1st be prepared using tools and courser sandpaper or you will get a unsatisfactory result and waste time. One needs to be able to get an OK shave off an 8K level hone before a higher grit couldl further refine an edge.
With all due respect: this makes no sense to me at all!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceni
If your face has the final say on what's good, and we all agree that a 12k feels better than an 8k... then a 12k is better than an 8k and a noob should strive to get the best and smoothest edge no?
Can an 8k shave be good? Sure. But do we send out razors to be honed by pros and tell them but wait, I am a noob and can't hone well, so stop at 8k? No! Of course not. We ask to get the best edge they can give us - that means a finishing stone.
So what if a noob can't get an edge off an 8k? If that's the case and they did have a 12, it just means they'll have to go back an extra stone lol!
I started a thread on the logic behind telling noobs to stop at an 8k - I get why people say it kind of. But the reality is, the learning curve on synthetics is pretty fast. Get the 12k now I say - avoid the shipping costs lol! You can always stop at 8 if you want to with a 12. Without one you'll have no other choice lol!
I do agree but take it in context,Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter
the advice to stop at 8k is to make sure you have done the preceding to the optimum or close to it.
the 8k will give an edge that is plenty acceptable/shave able.
anything beyond is icing on the cake,
I stopped at the 8k when learning to hone ( I owned a 12k),
fact of the matter if you cannot get it done there more needs to be addressed.
That is why it is recommended that way, touching up a razor is not the same as brining one to shave ready.
Starting from scratch it is a waste of time to ice the cake before it is cooked.
I just PM'd you and offer to try a Naniwa 3/8, C12k, a Coticule a JNat with Coticule and Tomo Nagura slurry stones in San Diego. I left you a phone number to call me. They are all very different and the only way to know which you like better is to try them. I am a continuous honer and my Naniwa sees all its' honing time on kitchen knives and rarely my razors.
I agree lapping film produces great edges and costs a lot less than a set of hones.. I have a set up chosera..1,3,5, then 10,15 , 20 suehiros.. And a norton 4/8 combo.. But when I started I bought a king 1k and the norton 4/8 combo.. There is a ton of info about the norton on here it's the janorton thread.. If I had to buy a starter said again it would b lapping film..u can hone and absolutely hate it and be stuck with hundreds of dollars in door stoppers... U can hit the honing wall and never climb over it.. My two centsQuote:
Originally Posted by boostdemon
If you haven't abused them list them, I do not see how you are stuck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airportcopper
Yes an investment but no where near the loss of using it as a door stop.
Guess ur right .. What I meant is if u realize honing isn't for u u may b taking a loss in the resale of what u bought..
Thank you all for the advice. I think I am going to take Avenolpey up on his offer to give his hones a try. I will let you guys know what happens. You guys are all awesome! Stand by for lots of questions when I get my hones. Lol
Speakin' the stone cold truth, brutha.Quote:
Originally Posted by earcutter