Can not seem to pass a HHT

Focusing on my Dovo, I have tried to improve it's performance. It shaves ok, but I think it could be better (I'm a newby).
A week back, I took it through a pyamide 25 stroke routine up through 4k, 8k, 12k, ox, web, leather.
At no time could I cut a hanging hair.
Today, I set out to hone where a hair could be cut.
First I dressed my stones. I felt the DMT 320 was not working correctly (had a warp to it). So I sat it aside and used a lapping stone (pink kind with the slits in it).
Using one layer of tape I ran 60 laps on 4k.
Then 60 laps on 8k.
30 laps on 12k.
All strokes were very controlled and felt perfect for draw and feel. Very smooth.
At none of the stages could I cut a hair.
The edge looks fine under my microscope.
I'll strop and shave later, but what am I missing on the HTT.
I can't seem to come up with a change needed to achive this.

You say it looked fine under a microscope - was the bevel absolutely set? It's not a case of doing X number of strokes/laps - it's set when it is set and there is no set number of strokes required to achieve this. You can set the bevel with a 4k but bare in mind it is a finer stone than the 1k (Duh, sorry if this sounds like it offends your intelligence) so it will take longer.

I use a loupe throughout the honing process - it lets me make sure the bevel stays set throughout the honing. I had trouble when I started honing, setting the bevel was fine but I was wiping it out on the higher grits due to too much pressure, although I didn't realise this was the case at the time. Using the loupe I saw that come 4k I had trashed the edge and although I was polishing it very nicely in the higher grit stage, without a set bevel I got very poor results. I'd wager that you never set the bevel in the first place - look through the microscope at the bevel setting stage to be sure.

The HHT isn't the end of the world - if it is giving an effortless and close shave then I wouldn't worry about it. I'd hazard a guess that you just need to spend more time on the lower grits to get the bevel dialed in.

The HHT is only good if you know what it does for you and using what hair, if using head hair even the area from which it is taken can change it.
And if you want to really get fussy about it diet can change it as well as environmental changes (just summer to winter conditions have an effect on hair).

I have fine hair, the HHT will only work for me post stropping, this is also true in order for me to truly tree top arm and leg hair.

Calibrate it and it can be a tool, for some it will never be usable.
I will use it after post shave stropping if I think a blade is starting to need a touch up, this confirms if I was having a bad day or the edge is slipping.
Please note just because a blade will not pass the HHT does not mean it will not perform or perform well for that matter.

You will need to spend time studying all of the potential tests,
take note of how and what and compare to finished results repeatedly in order to find what works consistently for you.

Have you done the HHT with any pro honed blades for comparison?
Is your test hair even compatible with/for the HHT?
Is your bevel truly set along the entire length of the edge?

Don't read to much into the HHT,
At this juncture you may not even know what it would or would not really be telling you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neckbone

All strokes were very controlled and felt perfect for draw and feel. Very smooth.

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Pardon me for saying so but that is a pretty big assumption for a beginner. I have been honing going on 2 years and would not assume my strokes were anywhere near perfect.

That said, I would agree with the others that the HHT is not the end all and be all, the actual shave is. I have my doubts that any of my razors could pass the HHT but I can still muster a decent shave with them. Just saying relax and don't push too hard for the ultimate edge, it will come on it's own over a goodly period of time. Still waiting and putting my time in here.;)

Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neckbone

Focusing on my Dovo, I have tried to improve it's performance. It shaves ok, but I think it could be better (I'm a newby).
A week back, I took it through a pyamide 25 stroke routine up through 4k, 8k, 12k, ox, web, leather.
At no time could I cut a hanging hair.
Today, I set out to hone where a hair could be cut.
First I dressed my stones. I felt the DMT 320 was not working correctly (had a warp to it). So I sat it aside and used a lapping stone (pink kind with the slits in it).
Using one layer of tape I ran 60 laps on 4k.
Then 60 laps on 8k.
30 laps on 12k.
All strokes were very controlled and felt perfect for draw and feel. Very smooth.
At none of the stages could I cut a hair.
The edge looks fine under my microscope.
I'll strop and shave later, but what am I missing on the HTT.
I can't seem to come up with a change needed to achive this.

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Flush that HHT down. I can't either. I think part of the problem is that I have very thin, fine hair.

What I do is carefully run over the edge with a finger or thumb. If it is sticky, that's a pretty good indication the edge is all right (not all the time, though). I, too, use a microscope. Just strop and shave, that is the final judge.

I'll tell you, I've been using a straight now around 11 years and I've never done the HHT. That's about what I think of it. Just worry about a good shave.

I don't hone, so this is only what I do know, I have tried the HHT. never has it worked for me , my hair just isn't there very fine, and even my arm hair I really cant tree to either. but my razors are pro-honed and they are the finest ,sharpest, smoothest shave I have ever had. so HHT? man I don't care the only test is steel to face, there are ways of telling to give you an idea, one is TPT and it tells me its sharp , also magnification, so don't read to much into it, you might be chasing a unicorn, and your shaves may suffer happy shaving , tc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pfries

...I will use it after post shave stropping if I think a blade is starting to need a touch up, this confirms if I was having a bad day or the edge is slipping.
Please note just because a blade will not pass the HHT does not mean it will not perform or perform well for that matter....

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I'm kind of off-topic because I never use the HHT, due to the fact that I figure the only "real" test is my face; however, I was really happy to read this statement of pfries, because sometimes a shave just doesn't do it for me and I wonder if is the razor that needs a touch up, or am I just having a bad day....face prep, lather, stropping, technique are all on me, not the razor. Most of the time, when I go back to the razor the next time and pay more attention, all is well.

It's the shave test that counts. HHT is not a standard that I use and like others have mentioned, tree-topping or popping arm hairs are mostly achieved for me after the strop.

Shave with the razor, that's the only test for me.

Frank

I agree that its more about the hair you're using then anything else. I rarely get the hht passed with head hair but with *cough* body hair it is like warn knife through butter. Don't fret it. Its the shave that counts. If you can do a three pass shave with no irritation and BBS results who cares if it cuts a hanging hair.

The hht is all male bravado. Its more of a bragging thing then you'd want to believe.

Keep at it.

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Originally Posted by Christel

I use a loupe throughout the honing process - it lets me make sure the bevel stays set throughout the honing. I had trouble when I started honing, setting the bevel was fine but I was wiping it out on the higher grits due to too much pressure, although I didn't realise this was the case at the time. Using the loupe I saw that come 4k I had trashed the edge and although I was polishing it very nicely in the higher grit stage, without a set bevel I got very poor results. I'd wager that you never set the bevel in the first place - look through the microscope at the bevel setting stage to be sure.

in.

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Great advice. It would be helpful for me to know what you saw after the 4k stone that indicated you had damaged the bevel. Did you see light reflection indicating a unwanted facet? My bevel/edge looked good, be being new, I wan't sure what I was looking for.
From watching videos, I take it I should see a finer scratch pattern the whole length of the bevel.
How was too much pressure detrimental to the edge? Maybe a delicate edge tends to bend?

BobH, sorry, that was a touch arrogant about my claiming good strokes. What I experienced was smooth strokes, lacking odd noise, hitches, tics, rough spots or grinding. Just butter smooth. A lot of effort was focused on not lifting the spine and keeping perfect contact with the stone. Feeling I avoided all those nasties, I felt they were good strokes, but probably not up to more experienced fellows.

As you all have been saying, the shave tonight was as good as I have had to date, verifying a decent hone job. Very nice.

I' still searching for that alternate hair to test with, but some are unpleasant to pull. Reason enough to drop the hht. Lol

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Originally Posted by Neckbone

I' still searching for that alternate hair to test with, but some are unpleasant to pull. Reason enough to drop the hht. Lol

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Yes well you gotta do what you gotta do to pass hht. Lol.

Seriously though don't worry bout it.

Do the hht if you want to see if you can but don't worry about it indicating whether or not your razor is shave ready.

Before shaving tonight with the Dovo, Idid 40 laps on chro ox web, followed by clean web and leather.
WOW....what a difference !!!
Absolutely the sharpest I have felt in razor (in my limited experience). Great shave. I wish now I had tried the hht first.
It has confirmed that I can do a decent hone which is nice to know.
Another step in the right direction.

for me not getting a razorblade to pass the hanging hair test is a clear indication that I hadn't washed my hair a couple of days :hmmm:

Long story ... Don't use the HHT any longer. Most I try on before I use a razor to shave with is a few hairs on the top of my left hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neckbone

Before shaving tonight with the Dovo, Idid 40 laps on chro ox web, followed by clean web and leather.
WOW....what a difference !!!
Absolutely the sharpest I have felt in razor (in my limited experience). Great shave. I wish now I had tried the hht first.
It has confirmed that I can do a decent hone which is nice to know.
Another step in the right direction.

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Funny that's been my experience as well. I will say this though. Next time you do the CrOx try and use fewer laps and see if you get the same edge. Another experienced SR user and restorer told me I was doing to many laps on CrOx and possibly prematurely rounding the bevel. So next time I honed a razor I did maybe 12-15 laps on CrOx then 100 or so laps on leather and it would split atoms after that. Just food for thought.

I've had some mighty fine shaves with an edge that never passed any test other than the shave itself.

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Originally Posted by Brenngun

I've had some mighty fine shaves with an edge that never passed any test other than the shave itself.

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Still the test I enjoy doing the most :p,
just did one tonight with a friends blade I had to take to the hones.

Here is my 2 cents worth :)
I gave up the HHT test because i find it pointless.
I check that the edge is sticky sharp on my thumb pad after bevel setting and after honing and stropping i check if it pops mid level arm or leg hair.. sweet :)

I do not find the HHT all that definitive. One thing is the hair dynamic. I have scary fine hair; accomplishing a successful HHT with it is nigh on impossible, blade sharpness notwithstanding. So...I use badger hair. Pretty consistent results. For the most part (using badger hair) HHT 2-3
equates to a pretty decent shave.

And soon your brush is bald?

Nah..I just save the occasional shed hair and keep them in a ziploc bag. I have about 7 badger brushes so if/when one drops a hair, I recover it.

Well if you would quit wasting them on the worthless HHT, you could send them to pixelfixed and have a nice brush made! :w