Whipped Dog "Quarter Nortons"

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

There is your answer Bram you just read the question wrong or I wasn't absolutely clear, I thought I made it clear with the Bold but maybe not

Bingo !! or some type of Angled, Swooping, Sliding stroke that covers the entire bevel of the razor, that info is everywhere and common knowledge in Razordom,, what I want to know is where is the "Straight Stroke" on a 3" Hone or a 3" Strop is coming from ??? I keep reading it and I am wondering why ???

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I think(from my absolute rookie experience) it comes from the thought that the x-stroke is used when a razors length exceeds that of the hones width.

So reeducate the newb masses to understand that the x-stroke is more effective on any size hone for the most part.

I can't quote or link directly but I've even seen an animated gif on this site that illustrates an x-stroke on an under sized hone. But I will admit that it doesn't state that its FOR an undersized hone.

I think its not parroting of bad info. Mainly misunderstood info.

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Originally Posted by Birnando

I'll leave it up to Glen to comment directly on your reply to his question.

But I do wanna say this though:
A wider stone doesn't stop you from doing x-strokes.
In fact, most of us do that most of the time anyway.
Naturally the degree depends on the blade profile and a number of other factors.

The point I think you are missing, is that the wider stone provides support that the more narrow does not.
On a 3" stone I might just use a fourth of the width for actual steel removal.
But the rest of the width provides a base to rest the razor while performing my x-stroke of varying grade.
That, to a rookie honer, is essential in my book.
And the wider stone will provide a shaveable edge more often than what they will see on those cut up toy stones from Larry.

Neglecting that is not being economical, it is witholding vital information from our new members trying to get a good edge to shave with.

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To add a little on this. If you have shaky hands like me that extra real estate means a lot. It is far easier to use a larger hone since a good bit of the razors weight is resting on the hone always. I can still use narrow hones, but I get even shakier cause then I am nervous as well about the width. Honing is hard enough to learn so get a full sized stone. Buying a quarter Norton and a full size Norton after is more expensive still. We have all at some point made the mistake of buying the "cheap" tool then going back to buy the "right" tool. Just a rookie's two cents so grab the salt shaker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Bingo !! or some type of Angled, Swooping, Sliding stroke that covers the entire bevel of the razor, that info is everywhere and common knowledge in Razordom,, what I want to know is where is the "Straight Stroke" on a 3" Hone or a 3" Strop is coming from ??? I keep reading it and I am wondering why ???

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+1. I don't do anything but X strokes, rolling X, unless it is circles or 'back and forth' while bevel setting. I don't know anyone who would do 'straight strokes' since the hone may have a certain amount of irregularity even shortly after a fresh lapping.

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Originally Posted by ncraigtrn

I think(from my absolute rookie experience) it comes from the thought that the x-stroke is used when a razors length exceeds that of the hones width.

So reeducate the newb masses to understand that the x-stroke is more effective on any size hone for the most part.

I can't quote or link directly but I've even seen an animated gif on this site that illustrates an x-stroke on an under sized hone. But I will admit that it doesn't state that its FOR an undersized hone.

I think its not parroting of bad info. Mainly misunderstood info.

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Here is how I see it:

Whenever you lead a razor down a hone, you are basically using about a quarter or at most a third of the stones width.
The part near the tang is where the action is at.
What that means is that while the entire blade lies on the full-width hone, the pressure will be the highest at the edge where the tang is.

Given the above, one would think a more narrow hone would be able to do the very same thing.
And you would be right.
The thing is, balancing the razor and working parts of the bevel at a time takes a wee bit of practice to learn.
All seasoned honers uses their skills of balancing the blades to their benefit, and would have little to none trouble using a hone like the one Larry is selling.
(although most would not want to)
Just as addressing issues at the tip of a blade would be well within reach with a slight adjustment of lift of the scale side of a razor on a wide hone.

But the ability to do so has taken many of us quite some time to learn.

Therefore, recommending that stone to a new honer is down right wrong in my opinion.
The lack of stability, regardless of what part of the edge is worked, might result in less than stellar results more often than not, so we tend to not recommend that approach.
IMHO that is

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birnando

Here is how I see it:

Whenever you lead a razor down a hone, you are basically using about a quarter or at most a third of the stones width.
The part near the tang is where the action is at.
What that means is that while the entire blade lies on the full-width hone, the pressure will be the highest at the edge where the tang is.

Given the above, one would think a more narrow hone would be able to do the very same thing.
And you would be right.
The thing is, balancing the razor and working parts of the bevel at a time takes a wee bit of practice to learn.
All seasoned honers uses their skills of balancing the blades to their benefit, and would have little to none trouble using a hone like the one Larry is selling.
(although most would not want to)
Just as addressing issues at the tip of a blade would be well within reach with a slight adjustment of lift of the scale side of a razor on a wide hone.

But the ability to do so has taken many of us quite some time to learn.

Therefore, recommending that stone to a new honer is down right wrong in my opinion.
The lack of stability, regardless of what part of the edge is worked, might result in less than stellar results more often than not, so we tend to not recommend that approach.
IMHO that is

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Agreed. [emoji106]

I don't see the need to bait either the Larry or honing trolls here.

Have fun.

If your a litttle guy,with little hands and small blades,perhaps those little stones will serve you well.
IMO, is stupid to buy a 1/4 Norton,JMO

I like seeing all the options everyone is putting out there to help a Newbie. You guys are great!

My 2 cents, an investment in the full size 4/8k Norton would be a wise choice (not familiar with other hone brands). As was said earlier these hones will most likely last you a life time. Maybe looking at it this way will make them seem less expensive? And you'll get a very usable edge to shave with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

There is your answer Bram you just read the question wrong or I wasn't absolutely clear, I thought I made it clear with the Bold but maybe not

Bingo !! or some type of Angled, Swooping, Sliding stroke that covers the entire bevel of the razor, that info is everywhere and common knowledge in Razordom,, what I want to know is where is the "Straight Stroke" on a 3" Hone or a 3" Strop is coming from ??? I keep reading it and I am wondering why ???

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owww, yes, I guess I misunderstood indeed, I guess I should have gone to sleep instead of checking here last night,...

I don't know about these straight strokes or where they come from, I think it is what I would initially do with a stone (big enough) and razor put infront of me without reading anything about all this stuf... (initially I thought the x-stroke was only to compensate for a small hone, I know better now).

Edit: just coincidentally came acros the following statement about the Naniwa Super Stones on the invisible edge (UK) saying: "All the stones are full size bench stones measuring 210 x 70 x 10 mm ( approx. 8.25” x 2.75” x 0.4”) and are bonded to a plastic base fitted with anti-slip ‘button’ feet. This size makes honing that bit easier as the full length of the blade can be set on the stone, doing away with the need to ‘x-pattern’ the honing action.", that might just be the source of the confusion here ;)

I don't get it. Do people think that there getting a bargain with the small hunk? Because to me where is the savings. It still a pricey rock considering its practicality useless now. Can you say throwing good money after bad? :shrug: