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Hi, I need some advise please.
I have recently realised that I have been using my Atoma 1200 plate far to often on my jnat, leaving a matt finish to the stone.
Now I understand I should have a mirrored finish to the surface, or a slight mirror finish when tilted to an angle .
I'm having trouble creating that finish.
I've been going at it with my Tomo Nagura but no mirror.
Should I try using my Shapton 30k?
Thanks..
Really ???
Good to know I have been doing it wrong all these years :)
Just kidding a little :)
You have to learn your stone, and then decide how to use it for finishing, there really is no one way with J-Nats there are as many ways as there are stones well maybe not quite that bad hehehe
Some stones finish best with a near glass finish and use of Nagura, some with a matte finish and different or a same stone nagura some with no nagura and a matte or a glasls finish, some with using the stones slurry and a dry finish..
This are just some ways to use them not even all the ways..
There are no wrong ways or right ways there is only the way that works best for your stone and your style
To answer your question I have found that my well polished Arkansas stone is the best way to create a Mirror Sheen on another stone, they are extremely hard and don't shed grit, also quite inexpensive, and available near everywhere..
You will not get mirrored finish with 1.2k Atoma.
The way I do it, is 320 DMT well used (think it is similar to 600 grit now), and leaves no deep scratch on the surface.
Then I use another Jnat to smooth the surface, you can use Nagura or tomonagura. With further use, the surface ill become as smooth as it gets.
Frequent lapping will require to go trough the process more often. If you have a hard finisher you should not need to lap too often.
I agree with Gssixgun about using an Arkansas stone. I've been using one myself to remove the gunk on my naniwa superstones, and to finish the faces of the charnley forest hones I was making earlier in the year. The arkie is so damn hard that most stones will yield to them. And it takes a hell of a lot of abuse to make one dish.
You might also consider running your stone progression on the Jnat. If your Jnat is flat then using a 1, 3, 5, 8, 12K just spending a couple of minutes with each stone on the Jnat should put some polish back. It certainly shouldn't damage your hones provided there all flat to begin with. Just make sure you do it under running water and you keep both stones nice and flat. It might also be worth just knocking the sharp edges off the Jnat with The diamond plate so you don't go gouging your rotation.
After a trip to a well worn DMT 320, I rub the surface of the JNats with a tomonagura. I can achieve a sheen, which works for me, but I would never achieve a mirror-like finish. Besides, too much rubbing with tomo can create scratches in itself.
BTW, I do the same with coticules after the DMT ... A bit of a rub withg the yellow slurry stone, and I can sense the difference in the first razor off the stone if I don't do this.
So, whatever works for you is the best approach. Try everything, and make up your own mind. We're all different!
Thanks for all your inputs.
Arkansas stone is the way forward I think.
I have achieved a smooth finish on my jnat with a couple of scratches ,thanks to my tomo.
I have tried everything , including Shaptons ,up to a 30k ( I thought I finally had a use for it)
My DMT 320 is redundant . After spending lots of time running a screw driver shank up n down it I purchased an Atoma 1200, that's now my go to lapping plate.
Your stone will get to the mirrored point after not that many razors if you leave it alone. There is essentially no reason to lap a very hard hone that will take a mirrored surface, but you may decide once it's there that unless you're using a nagura, it's too slow.
In the interim, if you want to get it to the mirror finish faster, go to the tool aisle at home depot and look for the hand planes. Find the "buck brothers" plane iron ($3) and take it out of the package and rub the side that *doesn't have the bevel* on your stone until it's settled in. You want something hardened like tool steel, as something soft like mild steel or cast iron may pull the particles off of the stone.
I once attempted to sharpen a japanese chisel on my favorite vintage japanese razor hone, thinking I was headed for super sharpness nirvana, but the combination of the pressure and the soft wrought iron backing on the chisel instead freshened the surface and exposed new particles. The buck iron at home depot won't do that (all of it is hardened), and it's cheap and if you keep it flat on your stone, it won't mark it.
We don't have the depot in the uk :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
I have ordered an Arkansas stone.
After a couple of days of running my tomo nagura back and forth on it,I achieved a very smooth surface.
Last night I finished my 8/8ths custom on it with a thick slurry.
The end result was shocking,I think the hairs now cut before the blade gets to them, it's that sharp...
Try sharpening a couple of carbon steel kitchen knives on it with presssure.
Just about any rock can be mirror polished except maybe something really soft like talc. it's just a matter of matching the stone with the right abrasive. A flat steel plate with some alumina and water will polish just about anything and depending on the grit and how hard your stone is you will get the result you want. I don't think it has anything to do with honing but it sure looks purdy.
The other day Maksim explained to me about polishing my jnats . I also read what he says concerning thick slurry.
Add to that what gssixgun explained in this thread and new jnat doors have opened for me :)
I always used watery slurry on a matte stone, now ill go the other way and use thick slurry on a glass surface, which so far looks the better option. At least with my Shobu.
I think my Shobu may now be redundant.
Today I received my first Nakayama and it is a thing of beauty .
The price was slightly embarrassing but that's why God invented credit cards, I think :/
I'm going tomorrow to buy some walnut and then have a base made for it .
I'll show you guys the finished product , when its done.
I would make some statement about how you don't have to buy japanese stones that are expensive....
... but I haven't exactly been able to stick to that.
My favorite hone was only $165, though, and I had an ozuku piece from CKTG years ago that would've been as good as anything as a hard hone to be used with a nagura progression, and it was $70. That doesn't by any means suggest that the next rock from there will be any good, though, as I've got ozukus (coarser and less dense) that are tool level of fineness and would never finish a razor well.
I've got other rocks that cost a lot more and were designed specifically for tools, and they're great for that. I'm sure the $500+ rocks designed for razors are great, too, but a lot of their value comes from attributes that don't have anything to do with performance over a carefully selected smaller rock thats under 2 bills.
IME, as a longer-term buyer of japanese naturals than has been the case on shave forums, a lot of rocks that weren't that well thought of (tomae looking plain green rocks that were common and a few hundred bucks) are all of the sudden much much more expensive. Even fujibato, who used to have very good examples of very hard nakayama hones with mild cosmetic issues for about $100 or so has pretty much vaporized those offerings. There's either small teaser koppa or there is very expensive with attributes that don't mean anything for actual sharpening, but that mean a lot for someone trying to collect rare rocks.
Takeshi Kuroda also sells a lot of nice very hard shoubu stones, and charges on the low side, but because the demand is up (pushing up those common green stones) so much now, his stones don't last long.
Attachment 167690I totally understand what your saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
I thought long and hard before buying my "Nakayama maruka Maruichi Kamisori Karasu Lv 5+"
I am not well off but the amount of appreciation I have gained for my Shobudani meant I knew nothing would stop me from getting some thing really special.
I'm sure this stone will be my most prized possession . It already is.
I think coloring patterns and stamps have a lot less value than they used to unless they're something really rare (google imaging karasu will show what I mean - some of the more spectacular patterns cost huge amounts), but..
it matters more what the stone does with the razor and if you love it and what it does, it could be...
...danger, don't ever say this out loud...
..the last stone you ever need to buy, and the same for the next several people who use it/buy it after it outlasts you.
But, I like to ask dealers for the ugliest really good stone they have for ____ (fill in the blank for the applicable use at the time).
I asked the dealer , whom I trust as do most of his customers, "for the best finishing Nakayama with no budget" and this he assured me was the best finisher.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
I don't look to save money only spend it :)
