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Hi, can I get some info please :)
I'm thinking about buying this, "Botan, Tenjyou and Mejiro Asano Nagura Set "
Am I rite in thinking that each one of these stones will give me a different grit sized slurry.
So I'd set the bevel with one and end up polishing with one.
If so what kinda grits are the equivalent to.
I would like to try and hone without synthetics and see what happens.
Thank you
It will take very long time to set bevel with Botan.
The starting slurry is with different coarseness, but I would not call it grit as naturals do not have perfect spherical particles that can be rated by size.
Botan and Mejiro Or Tenjio is all you need. If you want to go synthetics in the 1k-5k range, then you need only Mejiro or Tenjio before you get to your Jnat finisher.
ok..
Thinking about it, I kinda depend on my 8k shapton.
I'm still learning I guess but after setting the bevel on the 1k / 4k shapton I stay on the 8k until every part of the blade is looking good under the microscope .
So could I then hit the Mejiro or Tenjio . and which one of these is the finer?
Also , is there any point ? Does using Asano's pre jnat finish help the final product in any way?
Thanks allot
What Jnat do you have that you want to use with Nagura?
For me typically I go all the way to 10k then Mejiro then tomonagura on the same base stone.
You can work off your 8k with that method and it will give the same results.
Either of the two naguras will give you the same result provided it is good quality (they very since they are natural stones).
If you are chasing the proverbial edge, just get 20k Suehiro Gkumyo and you will be happy.
I have amazing edges and I don't see how they can get better really.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
I have a Shobu mizu and ive just bought a Nakayama maruka Maruichi Kamisori Karasu Lv 5+.
The reason I want to use more of the jnats is because I love the feel and even the sound of them whilst honing , the shaptons are just work horses.
I have some Tomo Nagura and im waiting for the arrival of some Nakayama Nagura
just mejiro or tenjio then, but you may also need a very good tomonagura, that will depend on the edge you get from the nagura.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
Thanks for the advise... I'll buy a TenjloQuote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
As an out and back (left and came back), it's somewhat disturbing to me to see all of these numbers attached to hones. this numbering is a new thing, and all you have to say is that you have a maruka nakayama razor stone and that's pretty much got it covered.
Before we had "levels" soft stones were inexpensive and seen as relatively useless other than for someone who wanted to use super blue steel or something that doesn't cut well on a hard natural stone (and all of the steels that fit in that category are more suited to synthetics, anyway). I guess it's just an irk of mine - it reminds me of naming winter storms.
At any rate, it sounds like you don't really need an asano nagura progression.
I agree with stefan, too, if it's a matter of hobby and not a matter of creating a great edge, get them anyway for fun. If it's a search for a better edge, it won't really do anything for you - your finishers are still going to be your finishers if you're doing a good job with them (and if you like your edges, you probably are).
So you don't like the fact that I paid a lot of money for my Nakayama and now you don't like the way I call my stone by its full name, "Nakayama maruka Maruichi Kamisori Karasu Lv 5+."Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
Is there anything you do like about me or my stone? :rofl2:
I will buy the Asano and use it instead of my 16k stone in the progression .
I will probably end up buying a softer Jnat down the line because I wanna try a full honing from bevel setting to finishing all with Jnats.
Synthetics are soulless imo :angel:
That was an inaccurate response to what I said. I said I don't like the numbering, which is something that appears to have been made up by the dealers. It's an unnecessary and potentially too precise (vs. reality) system.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
I couldn't really be any more indifferent about what you actually buy or have bought.
The other thing I've noticed is a real loosening of the names for stones, in terms of what's called kiita, what's called karasu, and it's fairly obvious that there have been a lot of stones with maruka stamps that certainly didn't start out as maruka.
As far as buying a soft stone to set bevels, there isn't a soft stone that's going to be called "level 2" or whatever that will be good for setting bevels. They are all still stones with small particles and don't cut nearly fast enough to do that. If you want to set bevels, you need to go down the ladder and get something like an iyo nagura or one of the other porous hard stones. If they cut too slow, you slurry them. There really isn't any virtue in stones that are softer than a kiita stone that was truly graded by a miner (and not given this level this or that stuff) as a razor stone. I guess the knife people like them for different finishes, but for razors and tools they don't do much of use. They are not fine, and compared to any stone that is intended to prepare an edge, not fast, either.
There was a time not long ago when stones like that were $100. Now they get stamped and sold to unsuspecting buyers as another variation of an expensive stone for $350. I do have a stone like that. It's a hideriyama stone that sheds particles fast, and the reason that I have it is a seller lied to me about 8 years ago in describing its level of fineness. It cuts an edge about as fine as a tanba aoto, and though it's not quite as soft as a tanba, it isn't really useful for anything.
The other aside from this is that if you're using a razor, it never needs to go down below the last couple of steps, and thus never needs to go to a stone that would have heavy slurry (like a soft stone).
One thing appears to be the case, and that is as the internet has created a demand for natural japanese stones, there is an audience all of the sudden that will buy stones that the longer term users never would have paid anything significant for. The longer term audience included professional users, and that should tell everyone something.
FWIW, the good hard fine stones that are truly hard, smooth, fine no scratch, etc, and that have a verifiable link back to the nakayama mine have always been expensive, just as it should be.
Interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
I know little about these stones .
My Shobu has taken my finishing to a new level and i just pray my Nakayama performs .
Its a beautiful thing.
At the moment im creating a flat underside to it, which has about a weeks worth of work left on it.
Then I will lap it and polish it up and finally use it.
Finally I will set it in wood.
Well, buying one of the softer hones to use as a bevel setter will make it so that you know a lot more about them real quick! It just might not be what you want to learn.
Synthetics are hard to beat for the grunt work, and for prepping an edge to be made "good" by natural stones, or the one of the very few synthetics that will make a divinely inspired edge.
I do not use them in general, either, but I am also not restoring razors, either, so I don't have a need to. As much as we like to talk about all of the different hones, a shaver who is not restoring razors can generally use a single good quality finisher for the rest of their life unless they bump the edge of a razor on something. Several years ago, I bought a single vintage hone out of a barber shop (that shouldn't be taken to mean that I don't have any others, that's untrue, I guess I have a dozen or so), and that hone with tomonagura and then diluted to clear water is the only thing my razor ever sees. I am sort of through with bevel setting, but the only stones I ever used that were natural that were nice bevel setters were a progression of novaculite hones, and that only because they are coarse enough to cut fast - at least with the washitas and soft stones (soft being a misnomer, as a soft is harder than the hardest japanese stones and you can push an edge into them and never nick them).
So what are all the different Asano's for?
Don't they act as a progression ?
My thoughts were that I want to use my Jnat for a bit more than just the final finish because its so nice to work with.
yes progression, if you stop at 3k you can go botan , mejiro or tenjio.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
I find that 6-8k is the optimal starting point for nagura, and I kip the botan.
I suppose they allow you to do coarser work with a finer stone. I don't have anything but a botan nagura, and I don't find much use for it. I might find more use if I were using a kamisori that had a fairly large bevel (wide bevels don't finish as fast).
I suppose also if you only had one stone, they'd be nicer to work with. I have stones from aoto through razor finishers and everything between, and thus less need for nagura progression. I'd rather finish with a progression of stones, in the event I'm setting up a razor.
You, me and other people don't necessarily face the same level of wear that someone honing razors for other people would find, and thus with often honing won't need more than tomonagura and then the stone itself. I also don't like to hone that much on my favorite razors (as in I don't like to hone them more coarsely than needed) - I'd like to have the same razors (non kamisori) in 10 years with relatively little hone wear.
Can I ask how long do you spend on the Jnat with the tomo?Quote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
I go for 15 mins but I don't do circles , just strokes.
This is hard question to answer. It all depends on the hone and the tomonagura, and how prepared the edge is before you get to that stage of the honing.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
I typically do two dilutions with tomonagura, I feel that if after those the edge is not there, then work on lower grits is needed.