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I've got a DMT 325 that has served me well. Still does a great job on softer stones, but it has lost a step in cutting power. Not as a replacement, as there is still life in the Dia-Sharp. but I'm thinking of adding an Atoma 400.
So, for those that have used both, is the Atoma worth the extra money, and what advantages has it got, if any, over the DMT plates?
Yes, weight about 1/3 of the DMT plate, truer (flat) and more consistent throughout it's useful life.
I can tell you this, the construction of the Atoma, the way the diamond strata is bonded to the aluminum plate, is such that it is far more aggressive than the DMT counterpart, or the GDLP. Speaking now of the only one I've got, the 1200. Because of this aforementioned construction I don't get the stiction (under running tap water) that I experience with the DMTs. My 1200 is super fast in lapping waterstones but I'd be afraid to take a razor to it. I haven't tried but I think it would murder the edge.
I didn't just impulsively buy this plate on a whim. I did due diligence in researching it and in asking members whose opinion I value of their experience before I went for the $. What I do it begin lapping with the DMT, either the 120 (XX) or the 325 (D8C) for the grunt work, and then when I am tired of the slow progress I get out the Atoma and it is like Grant took Richmond. I have been thinking about getting one of the coarser Atoma plates to replace the DMTs and may bite the bullet sooner than later.
Speaking with someone who has the 400, 600, and the 1200 , he told me if he had it to do over he would have gotten the 600, not the 400. He said the 600 delivers the goods without leaving as much deep scratch marks in the waterstone. Last but not least, IME, with 4 various grit DMTs, the Atoma is dead on flat. Not always so dead on are the DMTs. So that's all folks .......
atoma has the diamonds arranged in little piles that are evenly spaced apart, and are much more durable than the coated stuff like dmt. well worth the change for stones.
For work on metal, the ezelaps are more silky and less raw feeling once they are broken in.
If you get the Atoma, keep the DMT. It will work great to smooth scratch marks left by the Atoma. It will work great in heavy chip removal, or frown correction etc.
I have a DMT that acts like 600 grit stone now but I use it all the time and really like it.
you can clean your DMT with soft scrub and a brush. It helps them
Has anybody tried this double sided one yet? Geezer has one, maybe he'll chime in. Double Sided Diamond Stone F/C | Klingspor's Woodworking Shop
Mike
I have considered getting one but have not gotten to it already.Quote:
Originally Posted by MODINE
Funny thing is in Japan those sell for 2000 yen for a 400/1000 combo.
I have the Trend combo and it is wicked fast for lapping. Warranty is out of sight! If it lasts half that long, I'd be happy.
Aargh!!! Devils! DPAD (Diamond Plate Acquisition Disorder) strikes again. Now I have to try the Trend combo!
As if 3x DMTs, 1x half-size double sided DMT, 4x credit card DMTs, 4x Atoma and 1x Shapton glass diamond lapping plate (cant remember what they call it - really slow now, costs far too much) aren't enough!
The Atomas are much more aggressive and suffer from stiction less than the DMTs, but some, especially the high grit ones, do stick quite well - if you like that sort of thing, which I don't!
Regards,
Neil
The tough thing to do with the atomas is to actually wear them out (with tools). It's easy to wear out DMT's regular offerings with tools, but the atomas get slower and slower and/but never actually give up.
After seeing Neil's trouble with acquisition, I feel pretty good about only having 8 full sized hones/plates...well, I guess that's the same number, but none are the DGLP for me.
I love the ezelaps for tools (polycrystalline diamonds - they just get finer and finer but always have a sharp cut), but they aren't as good for stone lapping as the monocrystalline hones.
I am looking at my honing station as I type, Dave...Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveW
On it are all the diamond ones I mentioned plus a usless double-sided perforated one (totally useless) that I forgot about, alongside:-
a full set of choseras
a snow-white naniwa 8k,
a 16k and a 30k shapton glass stone,
15k pro shapton,
a la veinette and a les latneuses coticule,
a large yellow-spotted BBW,
a small celebrated water hone,
a small escher brand hone,
2x dalmore blues,
4x TOS,
1x llyn idwal and 1x charnley forest,
a smoky and a white translucent arkansas,
a 20k suehiro gokumyo or whatever its called,
a green thuringian.
Under the desk sits a box containing more dalmores, LIs, purple slates, a dozen CFs, two coticules. Alongside that is a pile of boxed hones including CFs, LIs, coticules, 8 celebrated water hones, three canbrock silkstones, several green slates and several unidentified hones. In my shed there are more. Upstairs there are more...
I feel sick....
Regards,
Neil
It just happens a little at a time, doesn't it? And then suddenly you have a reason to count what you have and you feel like a pig.
I don't have CFs you have, and I like to think of myself as someone who doesn't have coticules, but still there are two "good" ones and a slurry in my cabinet.
I think I must have 20 pike mine washitas and hard stones (translucents and blacks) and 10 large japanese hones, as well as as an 821/825 frictionite pair, a bunch of synthetics, a bunch of india and carborundum hones (that are nice tool user stones) and a bunch of slates/aoto types of western and chinese, a couple of jasper hones and one of those goofy chinese agate stones. And on top of the bench beside what stones are out is an IM 313 (which isn't very useful for razors).
The trouble for me is that I derive no income from anything razor related (nor from tools or knives). It's all a product of being a pig. Shameful, I guess.
I am in the same stye, Dave! I do occasionally sell off stones surplus to requirements, though.
Like you, I don't like to think of myself as a coticuleer - the two I have are the best out of 80 or so that have gone through my hands. Most seem to give a dependable but rather average edge.
I have not tried the jasper or agate but would like to do so - trouble is getting them in a reasonable size at a reasonable price and being reasonably sure you are getting what you pay for!
I would really like to get a usable sized piece of haematite to test, but that seems like a pipe dream.
I suppose we could always build small fall-out shelters (I would line mine with lead and tin foil) and emerge to be the only honers around. Would there be any customers left, though....
Regards,
Neil
Me, too, on the surplus....well sort of. I've never figured myself as someone who buys in excess, and have sold probably 30 or 40 stones off (maybe more) in the last decade. Often based on the guilt that comes with the realization that I've bought 5 in a month or so. It was easier to sell off stones when I had more that I didn't like.
I wonder what an igloo of arkansas stones would look like?
WRT the agates and the jaspers, the biggs and owyhee jaspers (two fairly consistent and fine types) are inexpensive here, but often a quarter of an inch thick and need to be glued to something. They are so hard it's ridiculous, and I haven't used any on razors yet - they make a fantastic follow-up to a coarser stone for tools because they are super hard and chase a burr without leaving much else. By inexpensive, I mean that you might be able to get a 6x4 piece of owyhee jasper for about ten bucks, and they are slabbed for jewelry makers, so some manner of flat and polished.
To make one ideal for a razor and have a good clean edge with a chamfer could be a challenge. Glue it down to a wood carrier first and then use a diamond tile cutter maybe to true an edge. The only stone that I've ever used that's harder is the spyderco UF. Non-trued edge is no big deal for tools.
"large jasper slab" and the word "owyhee" or "biggs" are search strings I'd use on ebay if I were looking for more. I've got two of each, and they are very consistent. The more boring looking the stone, the better and more uniform the surface.
Save up your money and treat yourself to a Shapton diamond plate, you won't regret it.
Here's another "diamond plate" to try if you're curious, the Tsuboman Atoma "foil". The only vendor I know of is Stuart Tierney at Tools From Japan, but this foil is made differently from the regular Atoma plates. The dots are much more dense and the foil is not as aggressive right out of the box.
I wish I could give more information about its performance except that it's very good (fewer scratches) as a nagura compared to the plate, but I've just started testing it. I hope a link is not inappropriate.
Tsuboman Atoma 'paper'. : Tools from Japan, Japanese woodworking tools direct from Japan.
Cheers, Steve
Also of interest are the Atoma Diamond Replacement Sheets. Given that they're thin and magnetic, 75mm x 210mm (2.95" x 8.27"), they ought to fit quite nicely on the SRD Modular Paddle Strops or those older HandAmerican metal honing platforms-- how about them apples?! 140-, 400-, 600-, and 1,200-grits available. Of course, I've no clue whether the price is a winner, or a show stopper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve56
I did not know they were magnetic, thanks for the post! Learn something every day.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHoren
Cheers, Steve
That is virtually the same stuff the atoma replacement sheets are made from, except with a copper centre instead of a thin steel sheet. Dieter Schmidt in Germany sells it (Fine Tools) along with the plates and the replacement sheets and a host of waterstones - a great site.
Regards,
Neil
If you follow the links to the category page, you find it is the same as the atoma replacement sheets. They are steel based rather than copper foil based, so they will adhere to something that is reasonably magnetic, but they have no magnetic field or charge of their own.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBHoren
Regards,
Neil
They are hideously expensive (anything from 330 US to 380 US) and once worked in become quite slow - DMTs are far cheaper and more aggressive. Atomas are far cheaper and even more aggressive. The biggest thing the DGLP (or whatever they call it) has got going for it is the deep grooves in it that mean it does not stick as much as the other two, and once the diamonds are past their best you can use it with lapping grits so get some more life out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOB15
A secondary benefit is that it is really trued-up, more QC than DMT for instance. But then again, all the DMTs I have had and the Atomas I have had have been plenty true enough.
I have one (DGLP) - I have not got round to using with lapping grit yet, but it has been 'put to one side' as the DMTs and Atomas do its job more effectively Besides, it grit is a lowly 325 from what I can make out.
Regards,
Neil
"Brain fart"... my bad. Thanks for the correction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
I purchased one at the Asheville, NC Razor Meet. I like the 5 year warranty! :) So far I have used the 325 grit lapping side the most for lapping waterstones. It works very well but it is still in the breakin phase. The other side, 1000 grit, is also very good for removing "frowns" from blades and texturing the surface of hones after the hones have been lapped with the 325 side.Quote:
Originally Posted by MODINE
How long they will last I do not know but there is a 5 year warranty.