Any ideas on this, would you use the SG 16k before the Zulu Grey or after? Or would you just use one as a finisher from the SS 12k?
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Any ideas on this, would you use the SG 16k before the Zulu Grey or after? Or would you just use one as a finisher from the SS 12k?
I just use my Zulu after the 12k and it works perfect for me. A Zulu, like any natural can be different from one to the next. I don't have any SGs but I would bet they are very close to the same thing. The shape of the grit may make a difference but let's see what somebody who has tried it out says. If you have both that somebody could be you :<0)
From the Naniwa 12k to the Suehiro Gokumyo 20k also works well.
The Zulu often requires 100+ strokes whereas the Gokumyo 20k generally needs in the neighborhood of 30 strokes.
If you have a Zulu, use it. If you have a Gokumyo 20k, use it.
If you have both stones, make your own comparison. They both work well.
I do have both but not sure which way round is best the Shapton feels as though it's polishing faster where as the ZG feels slightly smoother and not as grippy. I can't see much difference through a loupe. I'm hoping someone has honed more razors than me with either stone as I'd value different opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by 10Pups
As far as I am concerned, the ZG makes the edge left by the SG16k less 'sharp' and more 'smooth', though there is very little in it. It feels to me that by the third lot of shaving/stropping any edginess left by the 16k is ameliorated anyway, so beyond experimentation I never kept the exercise up.
FWIW if I want to get a smoother finish (usually I finish on the SG20k, so the next step is redundant, anyway) some 10-20 laps or so on CBN does the job very effectively.
BUT - if you dont have the wonga for all these super-hones, then a good old naniwa 12k is a good bet - it does all the above (mostly) on its own...
Regards,
Neil
Neil Miller said: wonga, please define. I can put in two possibilities, one monetary one anatomical.......what mean Kimosabe?
ReadiesQuote:
Originally Posted by WW243
Nelson Eddys
Dosh
Spondulics
Moola
Shekels
Dough
Lucre
Brass
Bread
Green
Bucks
Wherewithal
Loot
Mazumah
Dinero
Folding
Wedge
Necessary
Beer Tokens
Wad
Dibbs
Gelt
Lolly
Poppy
Smackers
Sobs/Sovs
etc, etc, etc
Savvy, Kimosabe?! :)
Otherwise known as "jack".
Not to be confused with "the jack", as described by AC/DC
AS far as the stones go, personally I'd use the synthetics for setting up razors and the naturals for maintaining them. Unless you don't care about the particular razor too much. There is some satisfaction that comes with shaving 500 times with a razor and seeing no visible wear.
I much prefer a fine natural and a single (tomo)nagura to fine synthetics, but my tune would probably be different were I honing for pay.
With good leather and a good linen, the stone can literally be a place you take a razor once every 6 months, and without any compromise in sharpness (you may find that the sharpness drops with a honing). With a bad linen, that won't be true, though.
Simplicty = Bevel set - Sharpen - Polish - Finish
Never been a fan of the Bevel - Sharpen - Finish, Finish, Finish, Finish, school of honing, have always figured there is only so much steel in that less then 1/2 Micron edge :hmmm:
Having been through a lot of synthetic and natural stones I like the fact that we can experiment. Trying this and that combination to find what we like best. Whether it is one or another, just fooling with them and seeing where we end up. IME that is one of the really enjoyable aspects of honing your own. In general I have ended up liking the edges I get from the Escher or the 20k Suehiro. Sometimes I'm more in the mood for a coticule edge. I don't have a ZG nor any J-nats, but trying different edges on what I do have is interesting and while they all end up similarly, they do vary somewhat. Like Glen said, I found that finsihing can be too much of a good thing if carried to the extreme. YMMV.
Agree with that. Especially once a razor is in shape and shaving well. It's like..Quote:
Originally Posted by gssixgun
.. polish...finish.
I prefer Pieces of Eight, thanks for the education, definitely some I have never heard or read before!Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
______________________________________________Quote:
Originally Posted by WW243
You would do well to have Neil as your "goombah".
He lives too far away for me to kiss his ring.....Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsell63
Hey, I'll bet the first two are Cockney rhyming slangQuote:
Originally Posted by Neil Miller
You'd better adam and eve it, china...Quote:
Originally Posted by WW243
Regards,
Neil (ring kissing optional) Miller
My first natural was a Zulu grey and I had Shapton 16k glass along with the 4 & 8k with a Chosera 1k. I still do. My best edges of the Zulu came after the 16k SG then the Zulu with very light slury to water. Sometimes I lost some sharpness and others I didn't. But the comfort level always was more appealing to my than the 16k with paste.
After many moons I started to get as good an edge on the Zulu by going from 8 k to the Zulu with slury and dressing the stone with higher grit natural like a turi or Atoma 1200 laping stone. In other words, my honing got better and I feel confident going from 8 k to Zulu and feel the edge is very similar to an edge that was done on the 16k and then Zulu.
Either way you do it, I feel you get quicker to a very nice natural edge using the 16k before the Zulu.
By the way, the SG16K and the SS12k have very similar particles size. Don't remember the number but some one can come with the facts easier than me at this time (handicap with slow wifi).
I go straight from my Shapton 8k to the ZG. I've found that it helps to lap the ZG before each use and definitely start with a medium slurry dilute once or twice and then some on water and a few final strokes on a barely wet stone - this has given me some of the sharpest and smoothest edges ever and I have a very nice jnat, full set of Shaptons up to 30k, Escher, and a coticule to compare to as well as my old nortons and 12 and 20k synthetics.
I also use my clinical microscope to look at my edges and find the ZG to have very consistent particle size when compared to my coticule for example. It's become my favorite hone and I think when used correctly it is slow but not 100 strokes slow. It is very dense and hard and takes some time and pressure to build a decent slurry with the included slurry stone. I've also used a small dmt to raise a slurry but I don't like stray large diamonds on my finishing hones....
John
Ok John maybe you can give me some advice. I am fairly new to honing and I hone on the Nortons 1,4,8. I am getting close comfortable shaves that are not quite as keen or smooth as I would like and I just got a Zulu with its slurry stone. In your opinion how should I proceed?
You mention in your post about the Zulu being used correctly can you elaborate? And can I go from my Norton 8k edge to the Zulu with slurry or do I need higher pre-finisher? How would you proceed if you were me?
I think going from any 8K to the ZG is fine. It really helps the density of the slurry on the ZG to lap it and the slurry stone before honing. Developing a decent slurry on the ZG requires a bit of pressure on the slurry stone - more so than with a coticule for example. I do probably around 20 very light stroke on the slurry, add water with my fingers spreading the slurry around and diluting it - another 20 light laps and then dilute to almost no slurry and do 20 weight of the blade laps. Then I rinse the stone well and do 20 weight of the blade strokes on water, rinse again and wipe as much water off with my finger as possible and do do another set of very very light strokes until the stone is almost dry.Quote:
Originally Posted by FranfC
John thank you for that detailed and concise reply. I will give that a try,
There is always more than one way to skin a cat. You should experiment with your stone and find what works best for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by FranfC
The last blade I did on the Zulu that came out of the 8k stone and gave a nice shave I did the following.
After I'm certain that I have a good edge from the 8k, I refresh the surface of the Zulu with an Atoma 400 (DMT 325) and raise a slury with it. Slury is white but not pasty, like runny diluted milk (experiment with that). Then I do 20/20/20 or 30/30/30, diluting half each time. Then go to water only for another 40/60 laps, but not before refreshing the surface and then dressing it with an Atoma 1200 or you could use the slury stone to do this. The purpose is to make the surface a little smoother.
If with water only it skips, I use either a very light slury (raise with the slury stone) to avoid the skip or one or two dish washing soap drops on 8oz of water, something to break the water tension and avoid skipping.
I love cats.:)
Sorry! I also love all animals. Still eat meat!Quote:
Originally Posted by ocelot27
Double0, Thank you for the recipe, I know you have put your time in on the Zulu I appreciate the help. Are you still using it for finishing or have you made the move to JNats?
Thanks again FrankC
"JNats" why you have to speak like that? Just when my HAD has tone down!Quote:
Originally Posted by FranfC
Not yet, but I'm reading and reading and thinking and reading and thinking. Eventually I will plunge in one of this days, but at this time I'm putting my money on restoration for now.
Yes I still use the Zulu now and then. Used it a week ago. It is slow, but that is an attribute for a nice zen like honing experience!